Advice to New Monks

Advice to New Monks

Question:
I was just wondering, you've seen quite a number of new Bhikkhus' come and go: I was just wondering what kind of 
advice you would have for a new Bhikkhu?  I've seen quite a few come and go now, I just wondered what it is that 
keeps them going, and what it is that stops them.

Luang Por Pa~n~navaddho:
Well, I would say one of two things:
One is nothing you can do anything about and that is Kamma.  If one is that way inclined, well then that's it. 

If not, there is another thing: if the new Bhikkhu would within the first year of being ordained, try to get to a good 
teacher and work as hard as he can at Samadhi, because until one has a taste of Samadhi one doesn't know the 
value of the Dhamma and the teaching.  If a Bhikkhu doesn't get any Samadhi then he doesn't see the value of it, 
[the teaching].  He reads the books, but (heh) paper and printers ink are not very tasty food: after a while the Citta 
gets rather tired of it.  After that one thinks, "Well what do I want to do this for?  I'm just making difficulties for 
myself and don't seem to be getting anywhere...", and they give up the robe.

But if a person gains some Samadhi, they know that this is right and this is good, and they've had the experience of 
something which is more happiness than they've ever had before.  Now if only they can get to that and maintain that 
state things are OK.

So I would say the best advice for anybody who becomes ordained is:
"Get out of Bangkok as soon as you can and get to a Wat where there is a good teacher and get down to the 
practice.  And do the practice as hard as you can.  For a long time.  And don't stop doing it."

There is a great temptation, in many ways, to stop when you have got some experience and to want to talk to other 
people about it: and it all just sort of fritters away.

[3:25]

Well the thing to do is to do the practice, learn the method and to not talk to other people about it.

There is the well known experience that if a person gains something or they find out something or they come to 
know something, if they share that with other people, it's as though it spreads.  Now this is found with bad things 
very easily.  If a person has got something bad in their past and they feel bad about it and feel some guilt about it 
and they don't like it: if they talk about it to someone else, it is as though it spreads and this is easily done.  Well the 
same thing happens in the opposite direction with good things.  If they talk about it with other people it becomes 
much more ordinary and it looses its taste and one doesn't feel that it is so valid.  So keeping these things to oneself 
is very important until one has a lot of experience, until one is strong inside. 

So I would say, the important thing is to do one's Samadhi practice and don't talk about it.  If you gain something or 
find some method of your own that works very well for you, don't go telling other people.  Not until you have had 
enough experience, are well used to that method and know it works well: then maybe, but not until then.  This is very 
important.

But the important thing for a new Bhikkhu is to get some experience, because if they don't have that there's nothing 
really to hold them.  Otherwise it's just theory, ideas and so on: and they've been doing that all along.  So I would 
say practice, get to the practice and get some Samadhi.  It must be Samadhi: it is no good thinking about things, one 
has got to keep onto one thing, like Buddho… Buddho… Buddho… just that; or Anapana, keeping the breath here 
[at the nose tip] and stopping thoughts, stop the thoughts entirely. 

When one's able to stop the thoughts, then one is in a position to turn them and to use them properly.  Until one can 
stop the thoughts, one hasn't got control of them, can't control them and they go everywhere: and become weak.  
But having learned to stop the thoughts one can learn to put them where one wants them and to make use of them 
and they become strong.

So the thing to begin with: stop the thoughts: learn to gain calm.  People in the West need calm: they come from an 
environment which is a hell of a mess.  And because they've been influenced by such an environment, they're in a 
hell of a mess too.  And it takes them a long time to settle down and sort themselves out.

And they have to realize that they haven't got very long.[6:40]  What I mean here is that they haven't got very long 
before the Kilesas' start coming up and saying, "… hey what are you doing here?  This isn't doing you any good!"  
So they've got to work hard at it, go to a place where they don't have all the distractions.  Where they can get down 
to doing the practice properly.

Another thing I would advise anyone who has practiced Samadhi: stop reading.  Particularly news magazines and 
anything of that sort.  One has to realize that whatever one reads or hears, it all goes into the Citta and that's food 
for it and it will develop in that way:  if one reads about the world, one thinks about the world: if  it's food about bad 
things, it thinks about bad things: If it's food about good things, it thinks about good things.  But if one is trying to 
stop thoughts then none of it's any good.  So the best thing is: stop thinking.  Stop all contact, reading and so on: and 
talk with other people as little as possible.  Keep to oneself, keep away, it's the best thing you can do.  [8:06]

Q:
I find myself, I don't know if it is typical of all new Bhikkhus, or just me: I talk too much about stupid things, petty 
things.  I realize I'm talking about it, but just can't seem to have [the attitude that I should have] no business talking.

LP P:
Yes!   One should watch oneself talking and then reflect on ones talking and think, "…well, did that talk do me any 
good?  What good did I get from it.  What value was there in it?  Did the other person get any good from it?  One 
should really think like this, we all make mistakes, I know, we all forget quite often: so most of us, in fact all of us 
except the real Ach?ns, haven't got enough mindfulness. 

But one has to apply this often and often and often until it starts to have an effect and then what happens is that one 
thinks one is going to start to talk about something and one thinks, "…why?  What's the point?"  To oneself   of 
course: and then the teaching is beginning to have an effect.

Also I would say, for a new Bhikkhu: don't neglect simple things.  I know new Bhikkus know about contemplating 
food when one's eating and know one must try to be mindful when one is eating and  walking, and they think, "…oh 
well, these are just the simple things."  But they are not, these things are very important.  Although contemplating 
food may seem to  get no results, but steadily, steadily over time, it does get results, and one does get results from 
it.

Another thing I would say for new Bhikkhus: one of the things that is difficult to control is R?ga Tanh?, sex.  Now, 
probably the most effective way of controlling this is contemplation of the body.  If one finds RT is arising, and 
everything is wrong, contemplate the body: traditionally this is the thirty-two parts.[24 -10:30]    But anyway, see the 
As?ba side of it, see it as a mess, see it as though it's all broken up, think of it as corpses and all that sort of thing.  
Now you will find that you won't feel within yourself any special result, but you will find that the RT has dropped.  So 
a very good test for this is to watch a dream.

When one has a lot of RT there is a tendency to have dreams of a lot 
of women and all the rest of it.  When you do this contemplation the women don't come near you in dreams, you may 
see them, but they don't come near you.  Quite interesting, the effect it has: and it is almost as if something is 
pushing them away somehow, but one doesn't quite know how.
 
I think this can work particularly with women, as women can get quite close and become rather a nuisance.  Just 
contemplate the body, think of them as a lot of bones, flesh and mess and blood and shit and so on and all the rest of 
it.  And you'll find that they are repulsed. 

This is a protection that a Bhikkhu should have because women are very unstable and unpredictable, well some of 
them, not all of them, just some of them, and one needs some protection.  That is definitely an important thing.
[24 – 12:04]

Q:
Girlfriends and things just keep coming back.  Just pop into my head.  Is there any kind of pattern to this?

LP P:
Well if the girlfriend keeps coming into one's head, OK cut her head off.  See the blood coming out, pull the meat 
off, look at the bones.  Now you'll find a repulsion from doing this, you'll think, "…oh I mustn't do that with her."  
Why not?  Not harming her.  Just something in the mind.  All it's doing is some damage to the image one has of her, 
that's all: it won't harm her at all.  So that's probably the best way to deal with that one.[24 – 13:02]

But one has to make the determination to do it.  If one just lets it come up and doesn't make a determination, it 
won't have any effect.  The thoughts will just go on.

Q:
Another problem I've had, I don't know if it's typical of new Bhikkhus, I seem to have these emotional cycles.  
Some days they're just fine, for a week it will be beautiful, and then – bang! – I don't know what happens, what ever 
good results I've had just seem to evaporate.[24 – 13:40]

LP P:
Yes: that's how it goes, one's unstable.  I have found these patterns often follow the weather: weather changes.  You 
may watch for that.  The thing is you can then predict and see, "…oh, that's what the reason is." 

Another thing that can cause them is food.  Different types of food sometimes: but often, just too much.  To much 
food causes trouble with practice.  A lot of people here go on fasts.  If you do try fasting and you find it effective, 
then use it: but use it with caution.  What I mean by that is, don't go to excessive lengths with fasting: it's no good.  
[24 – 14:30]

Generally, when TA went on fasting, he said he used to go for about a week, never more than that without eating.  
Sometimes he went a week without eating, and then ate one day, and then go for another week, and ate one day, and 
then go for another week and ate one day.  But he always  wouldn't go further than that.  And it seemed to me that 
what he did there was a very reasonable approach.[24 – 14:59]  Otherwise you can get people who can almost get 
addicted to fasting and it isn't a good thing.  Anther thing you can get with people who fast, they start competing.   
Somebody's doing a fast and they think, "…I'm going to go further than that."  And that in fact is contrary to the 
way of the Vinaya.  It's wrong in the Vinaya, because it's doing it for the wrong reason.[24 – 15:34]  Fasting should 
be for the reason of developing the practice.

But fasting doesn't suit everyone, it was no good for me.  I tried it and just lost all energy and the practice just got worse.  So I didn't do it.

Q:
I tried various ways, for a few days or so, it wasn't difficult, I just didn't see any benefit from it.  But I felt a little 
conceited that I could do it.

LP P:
 Well, if you don't find it of any benefit then don't use it: but what is probably quite a good thing to do is to test it 
every now and then.  Every several months just try a four or five day fast and see if it does have any effect.

Q:
What is it, [what does it mean  to be] going on a fast Tan Aj?n?  What should one expect at the best?

LP P:
It clears the mind, it prevents the digestion of food being a kind of 'load' on the mind.  There isn't the tendency to 
sleep, one tends to be more mindful, the mind is generally much brighter, one feel lighter and feels more like one 
wants to do the practice.  Those are the general ways of fasting if it goes properly.   And one should use that time to 
try and develop the practice to try and get as much experience as one can. 
In Thailand there are many people now who say, "…oh, the way of Samadhi and all the things connected with it, 
they're unnecessary, what you must have is Vipassan?.  Now, all I can say is don't listen to them.  TA was once 
asked about people who talk about Vipassan? like this, and the lay questioner asked him if this was genuine 
Vipassan?, or what is it? 

So he said, "…well, there are some people who are thieves, and they say they are honest good people.  But even 
though they say they are honest good people, they still remain thieves: and he said it's like that.  They talk about 
it's Vipassan?, but in fact it's Samadhi.  However much they say it's V it's still S.  Because they are doing things 
like breathing practices, or the belly movement practice, that's not a V practice, it's S, it's calm.[24 – 18:55]  It's S 
practice.

Q:
This V practice that's very popular in BKK, it's the Burmese method.  They claim to attain Sotapanna in two weeks.

LP P:
The only thing is, if that was the case, why doesn't one see much of the results of it.  I can't see that the people who 
practice that are any better than the other people.  Whereas the Ajaans that I've met, who are known to be real 
Ajaans, they are different: and they show it.  There's no ostentation about it, they  just show it in their character and 
their bearing; the general feel you have about them, the way they talk: you can see the difference.  But these people 
who do this practice, there's nothing you can see of it.  That's all I can say.  They may like to call themselves 
Sotapanna, but personally I don't believe it.  I don't think they know what Sotapanna means.[24 – 20:12]

Q:
According to some teachers in BKK, if you look down an average street, if you had the power, you'd see maybe a 
dozen Sotapannas walking around.  And that it is very common.

Another thing, Tan Aj?n, reflecting on the Bhikkhus I've seen.  There's a  longer term cycle too, set after three or 
four years, when it suddenly seems as though one hasn't progressed.

LP P:
You can reckon that there are some Bhikkhus go fifteen years, and they then give up the robes, some more 
than that, maybe twenty, there's no length, no time limit really.  But then all you have to do is look at many of the 
Bhikkhus that you see in BKK, and you have to reckon up, "…have these people really got anywhere?"  And some 
of them have twenty five years practice.  Twenty five years in the Sangha, and so on.  And you can see they haven't 
got anywhere, these people.  And when a person's like that, if the kilesas arise, they arise, and they give up the 
robe.  There's nothing to hold it.

This is why I said it is so important to get at least some experience of Samadhi.  You've got to get something to 
begin with quite early.  Now one should consider that one has to work quite hard until one gets some experience.  
Now after that, alright one knows what direction to go in.  One can see the value.  Then there is at least something 
to hold onto.  Unless one gets that, there's nothing.

Q:
I find it very difficult to keep Samadhi.  I can reach it in meditation and everything is fine for a while, and then it just dissipates.   And then I go back to talking in a kind of mindless way.

LP P:
Yes: probably the reasoning behind this is a lack of Saddha actually.[24 – 22:50]  One can't link that Samadhi to 
anything.  It is difficult for Westerners  not being brought up in Buddhism and they haven't got the Sadha in the 
background.  Because of that it isn't easy: for the Thais it is a bit easier in that way, they can get Samadhi and they 
can then get back to the Buddha and so on.[23:14]  They have a whole background in Buddhism.  But still, that one, 
you can't do anything about that.  One's got to take the situation as one is.  The only thing one can do there, really, 
is: if one finds that it all drops away, one has then got to continually make a new resolve to get back there.  One 
knows it's worthwhile, one knows it's good, one's got to get back there.[24 – 23:54]

Q:
It seems that Saddha is one problem Westerners seem to have: are there other problems that Westerners have in 
particular?

LP P:
Yes, DitthiM?na, opinionatedness: this is very bad, generally and very strong.  Mainly because in the West we are 
all taught everybody should have opinions, and because of that everyone is an expert on everything. And you can't 
mention a subject without somebody saying, "…oh, I know everything about that."  Whereas they've no idea at all, 
and they give out their opinions.  This is a very prevalent thing and one has to be very careful about DitthiM?na. 

There are very distinct differences between opinionatedness and knowledge originating from Wisdom.  
Opinionatedness tends to jump to conclusions without having any facts, without knowing any background.  Whereas 
the wisdom searches the whole field, looks the whole way round and searches the background, and sees cause and 
effect, and because of that there is knowing.  And that way the views are not DitthiM?na, not conceited opinion.

Conceited opinion just takes one facet without knowing the rest of it, and jumps to conclusions from that one facet, 
without knowing the rest of it.[24 – 25:50]

Conceited opinion jumps to conclusions from one facet  without knowing the rest of it.  Westerners are very prone to 
it.  On the radio, in UK, we'd get somebody who was an expert on football, and he'd be interviewed and asked, "…I 
wonder what you think of the present political situation."  And this man would launch forth on it and knew nothing 
about it at all.  Complete nonsense, the whole thing.

Q:
I find I have a problem, just when I know I should keep my mouth shut.

LP P:
It is very important to try and know the Kilesas.  Kilesas are the enemy, and one should know the enemy.  By 
knowing the enemy, one can become aware of when he is likely to attack, and one can come to know what are the  defences.  The first thing to realise, the Ks are always there.  It isn't as though they're sometimes there and sometimes not: they are always there and there is no time when they're not.  One can say that the Citta is completely ruled by the Ks, it is under the sway of them the whole time.

The Ks give rise to something we call 'self'.  And this something we call 'self' is really the essence of the Ks.  And we relate everything to this 'self' and that very relating is the Ks acting.  And the outlooks we get are all in relation to self, and these outlooks are the Ks as well.  Everything is coloured by them: everything is distorted.  Because of 
that we are completely subsumed by these things.  And we don't know them, we don't see them because they are just part of us:[28:19] completely natural.

Now we've got to realise, these things are here all the time.  We mustn't think that they're light things, things that don't matter very much.  You think of the evil that some people do, the Nazis in Germany, the Japanese in China during the War, etc., etc. all this comes from the Ks.  It's the Ks that drag one into the greatest suffering as well, they  drag one into doing things that bring one suffering, they cause one trouble the whole time.  They lead one to rebirth, 
sometimes good, but sometimes bad too: so they're no small thing.  And they're very sticky, they don't go easily.

And they're always defensive.  One has to realise that they use the power and skill of the human Citta: that is why they are so clever, because they are using the Citta.  Not that the Ks in themselves are especially clever, they are a 
distortion of the Citta and use the Citta to think up their own ends. 

And these are the enemy, and they are not an easy enemy to deal with.  One has to learn to know it first of all, one must know them and see them in action.  Generally one can't see them when they're acting because ones too caught 
by them.[24 - 30:00]  One should reflect to see how they made one do this or that, how they came out in this way: all  the time.

At first one can't see the difference between what one would call one's 'self' and the Ks.  But in time one does begin to realise that there is a difference: that the Ks are one thing and the Citta is another, and not the same.  That the Ks usurp the Citta, and what they have produced is what one calls 'oneself' and this is an impostor: not the genuine thing at all.

The one that is genuine is very hard to realise, but the one that's genuine is like 'non-self', like it's not oneself at all.  And this one is not at fault.  This one you can call it the 'true Citta' or 'Dhamma' or whatever.  And this is the one one's searching for.  Searching really to become that.  But that means one has to learn how to give up that which we call the 'self': and that's hard work.

One has got to train oneself until one comes to the position where one can do that.  Until one gets to the position 
where one can do that, there's no hope of giving it up.  Can't just say, "...I'll give it up now.", because it is the Ks that are saying that.  And the Ks, all they do is give up one thing and take up another. 

Usually, what happens when someone tries to do it before it's time, they give up 'self' and then they take up the idea that, "...I'm an Arahant", or something like that, and all that has happened is that they've made another self and given it the name 'Arahant'.  So they are worse off because they think they have nothing more to do.  They've got 
this view, this opinion that leads them in the wrong way all the time: if they can't shake that they are finished.

So the Ks are a bad enemy, in fact they are the only enemy.  One can say that if anything goes wrong, if the practice doesn't seem to be going right, it's the Ks that are doing it, they are the ones.  Often, they are dragging one down, so that one can't think straight.  One can't make any resolution.  And if you look, the thing they get hold of mostly is feeling.  Just plain physical feeling, just around the stomach here, around the Solar Plexus: that's all, just that feeling. 

If one can make the resolve, "...to hell with these feelings, I'm going to do the practice regardless of feelings...", 
anyone can beat them.  But you've got to keep on defeating them time after time: not just once.  But one must learn steadily, bit by bit, to know these Ks, very important. [33:44]

Q:
  I sometimes wonder, is there anything left besides Ks.  They are so powerful.

LP P:
Yes: the Ks are powerful, but we still have the possibility of choice.  And in any situation that arises, one always has the choice of whether to go in the right direction or the wrong direction.  Now the right direction still has Ks in it, but it's leading to less Ks and thinning them.  It's leading in the right direction to get free from them: but if one is going in the wrong direction, they are getting thicker.  And the Ks try to bias it so that you go in the wrong direction.  But one still has the choice to deliberately go against them: to go in the right direction.  One hasn't got rid of the Ks by  that, but one is going in the direction to get rid of them, that's all.

I mean, morality is that really.  Whenever any problem in morality arises, to go in the right direction is to go against them.  It's difficult because the Ks don't want one to go in that direction: they pull. 

The enticement of the Ks is so often merely that of relaxation: feeling relaxed and at ease, which we want so much.  Whereas going against the Ks produces tension, irritability, and one feels annoyed, out of sorts, constipated and all the rest of it.  But the thing is, you are going against the Ks, and you are going in the direction to get rid of them.   And all these things, irritability and so on, these are the Ks trying to pull one back. 

More technically we can say, these are merely the results of bad Kamma in the past,[36:25] which arise, and because of the nature of the Ks, the arising of these bad feelings tend to induce one to go on a habitual path of going down hill - where one shouldn't go - to try to get rid of these unpleasant feelings.  The trouble is if one goes in that direction one reinforces the Kamma that will produce those feelings in the future: so the wheel rolls on.[36:55]

So one's really got the choice all the time of whether to go in the right direction or the wrong direction.  If one continually chooses the right direction deliberately, one not only starts thinning the Ks, but one gets the power and strength of will to go against them more easily and one gets more strength.  Whereas, if one goes with them all the  time, one just ends up as a jelly fish: [37:32] completely under their sway.

Q:
How does one begin to know if ones efforts are having an effect on reducing the Ks?  Is there something, especially for beginners?

LP P:
One finds, I would say, one's own estimation of one's self-importance, I don't mean in theory, but one's feeling of it becomes greater.  In the sense that - I don't mean in the bad way - of one's own worth, in oneself, quite regardless of what anyone else thinks.  One's worth in oneself, one doesn't feel that one's like an old foot-rag.  Inside one feels that one has something that's valuable.  And that thing of value starts growing.  And one finds also that there's 
firmness inside.  There's a firmness that is capable of fighting the Ks and going against them.  All these things do show externally, but the external thing is not what matters, that's just a by-product: it's the internal thing that matters all the time.

Q:
Now I've had feelings of self-importance at times, but it's more in the sense of conceit I think.

LP P:
Yes: it's not self-importance where one's thinking about how important one is.  It's just a feeling without doubts, in that one questions it, but it is still there.[39:35]  And even though one questions it, it doesn't go.  So you know it's genuine.[39:40]  If one has the usual feeling of self-importance in the world, and one questions that and investigates it, it just bursts 
like a bubble, because there's nothing to support it at all.  [40:00]

Q:
One has to accept one is going the right way?

LP P:
Yes.  Although one can't quite see what way one is going, one may not know what specific things one's done to go that way, what specific thing has helped.  Yet at the same time, one knows one has developed, and one can hardly put ones finger on it.  It is very hard to say what it is, but development has taken place.  And one knows it, one knows one's changed.  One used to be like that and one is no longer like that.

Q:
Other times I have a sense of impatience, things aren't going fast enough, maybe it is time for another fast or stay up all night and do battle with it, etc.  And it doesn't seem to work.

LP P:
Hum: another western trait.  Like you see in the magazines, "...rush me a copy of your catalogue."  Impatience, 
can't wait for it.

Q:
That's one thing I notice at WatPa Nanacat, it almost a frightening sense of shear will power people bring to it, to have results immediately.  Seems admirable in a way, but frightening in another way.

LP P:
That's no good.  The more one tries to push it in that way, the more the obstacles come up to oppose it: because that is Kilesas.  The thing is it's, "...I'm going to get results", with the emphasis on 'I'.  "...I'm going to force those results regardless".

Now, if that's under the control of a really good teacher, he might be able to use that faculty, that power.  But when  it's under the person's own control, generally what happens is this: If a person has a number of ways they can go,  they will only see one or two of these ways and not see the others.  And the way they should go is the way they don't see, because that's the way their Kilesas are, where they are strongest, because of their character.  And because of 
that they don't see that way, they only see this way and this is the way their Ks are not very strong: so they always go lopsidedly developing those things that they already have strong.  And the things that really need development, they can't see, and they don't go that way, they go the wrong way. 

Typically, people who are greedy characters always think they are hate characters, and people who are hate 
characters always think they are greedy.  The reason for this is, the person who is a greedy character, whenever 
greed arises they don't see it, whereas whenever hate arises, it sticks out like a sore thumb, it's obvious to them, 
and he thinks his character is rooted in hate.  And he thinks, "...I must do the things to control hate...", whereas 
that's not the way, it's greed that he must control. 

That's one of the reasons why it is very difficult for people to develop Dhamma on their own, without a teacher.  
Because one way or another the teacher will indicate the general direction that they should go.  And Tan Achaan 
here is very skilled at it.[44:21]  He rarely tells somebody, "...you should do this practice ... should do that 
practice...", very rare.  He will suggest a range of practices, but one way or another, he will do things or indicate 
things or say a little bit here or a little bit there and gradually steer the person one way or another: he's very good at 
that.  But, as far as it's within Dhamma, he won't force the person at all.[44:55]

Q:
Many people have different characters.  Not just superficial characters, but deep tendencies.  Can one adapt 
oneself, or does one need a teacher to [do this].  For example, as for myself I can see that there are certain things I 
could never do.  I could never become a great teacher, I just know that.  I just know my character, and wondered 
how one could use that.

LP P:
As to whether you could become a great teacher, that you don't know.  What you are at the moment probably 
couldn't become a great teacher.  But as one clears the Kilesas away, one changes entirely.  And one doesn't know 
what one is going to become: no idea.  One could be utterly different from what one expected.  In fact when results 
come in practice, they come in a way that one never thought of.  Something completely out of the blue.  And the way 
one expected results to come, if they come that way, they aren't very much.[46:30]

Q:
Do you think it wise for  a new Bhikkhu to stay with the first teacher for five years?

LP P:
 I would say that it is not good to take the attitude that some have, to stay with a teacher for five years regardless, 
and they don't think about doing the practice properly.  You've got to think of being with a teacher for five years as  
being the period where one learns the practice, and learns what is necessary to be learnt, so that one can if one 
wants  go away on one's own.

To go away on one's own doesn't mean to go back to BKK. He goes to the forest to find a quiet place to practice 
some meditation.

One of the troubles, now of course, is the way of the world has invaded the monasteries as well.  The people who 
become Bhikkhus now have been to school and sometimes to university, and they are completely infected with 
Western traditions and views, and they haven't got a proper feeling for religion.  This is a difficult thing to describe 
really.  It means that with the right outlook, it sees the religion as being the important thing, not the way of the 
world.  In other words, a Bhikkhu thinking in terms of the way of the world thinks in terms of expediency, how one 
should behave in the world, what are good manners in the world.  One should have knowledge of the way people 
think and act in the world. 

Whereas the way of religion isn't that at all.  It is the way of what is true, what is correct, what is leading to freedom: 
it doesn't like the sham of the world.  The whole thing is an attitude quite a different from the worldly attitude.  One 
sees people in the world, and one feels sorry for them.  One feels one would like to help them, but at the same time 
one feels a certain disgust for them and the way they act.  It's rather like that.  Even good people, they don't do it 
right. One sees the things they are interested in, the things that they do, the way they act; they laugh and make a 
joke of it: but it isn't right.

This sort of thing is very important to the right attitude.  This is the thing maybe  just a matter of common [sense] 
and true.  It probably grows with the practice as well.  This sort of attitude is not confined only to Buddhism, it will be 
found in Xianity, Islam.  Also the practice, but even now days that is getting harder to find, in Xianity as well.

Q:
It's more difficult for older people, ordaining latter in life, having spent so much more time in the world.  More 
difficult giving up things from when they were young.[51:47]

LP P:
At Wat Bowon, a very well known and rather elderly farung lady, (Mrs Stanton) asked me if it was better for people 
to live in the world and to ordain latter in life.  I replied,"...the Buddha said that one should not wait until the hair on 
one's head have turned grey before ordaining".  Given that she was completely grey at that time, I somehow think 
that she did not feel too comfortable with that answer.

Q:
It would be more efficient to become a Bhikkhu first, and then go back into the world.[52:52]

LP P:
Ordination is far too easy in Thailand.  People can ordain for as little time as a week.  I don't see the point of this.  It 
may have some benefit for the person, but I'm not sure it is good for the Sangha.  Brings the value of it down.  But 
it's tradition and you can't do anything about it.

Q:
I spent my first rains at Wat Bowon.  During the year there were maybe fifty odd Bhikkhus, but during the rains 
there were about a hundred and twenty, about twice as many.  It had an incredible effect on the atmosphere, just 
changed things completely.  I found myself talking to the new Bhikkhus about all sorts of worldly things, because 
that's all they knew.  They were too young to be able to talk about anything but that.  Had quite an effect on me.  I 
wouldn't recommend it to any new Bhikkhu.

LP P:
It's good for the Bhikkhus who are doing this, but it isn't good for the Sangha, it has an effect on other 
Bhikkhus.[55:06]  When a large number of new Bhikkhus come in all at one time like that there is a tendency for 
them to form a group separate from the others, and that isn't so good. 

Q:
It's probably better for new Bhikkhus to stay away from that, new Bhikkhus won't gain very much from that.  Except 
when there are classes etc.

LP P:
I haven't stayed at Wat Bowon for a long time, I don't go to BKK very much at all. 

Q:
I was told by many new Bhikkhus that they will go to BKK for study, there being very good libraries, excellent for 
study.  They will get a good foundation from the books.

LP P:
I won't say the books are no use.  They are quite valuable, but must be used in the right way.  And the right way is 
for them to prop up one's practice, though this isn't necessary.   What I mean by that: if one's doing a lot of wisdom 
practice, doing a lot of investigating.  They can look things up and find what not to look for, and point out things, and 
find some line of text which will set them thinking and start them working on that, quite a good object of Dhamma to 
have in one's mind.  Books can be quite useful like that, a mine or storehouse of  potential for oneself.  But for Samadhi it is different. 

Tan Ajaan told us of when he first went to Tan Ajaan Mun, previously he had been a  Bhikkhu for several years, and he learnt Pali up to Maha grade, he said he could read Pali, his teacher wanted him  to go further with it, but he himself wanted to go off and develop practice. 

And in due course got to Tan Ajaan Mun.   He told him of some of what he'd done, and TA Mun said, "...all this forget, but later on it will be quite useful to you.   But for the moment, put it all aside and forget the whole lot.  It won't help you at all.  Later when you develop, it can  help you quite a lot."  And he said he was like that. 

Because the books are really dealing with an analysis of the way.[59:40]  But until one has developed some calm if one tries to use that it won't be proper wisdom.  One has to  know the nature of wisdom.  Wisdom is not thinking about like that.  Thinking about can lead to wisdom if one has a basis of calm.  But without the calm, it is just discursive thought and all that will do is produce restlessness. 

So what one has to do is get a basis of calm to start with.  There are a few people who can do it directly straight from the words, but they are very rare.  It is something in the way of Zen, they start with the way of Wisdom and Samadhi can develop from that.  But the majority of people can't do that and have to go the way of calm. [61:00]  Then they find with time wisdom can turn to thinking. 

The Citta is quite unlike restless thinking.  It can go deep into one thing with ease and slowly work over the thing.  It sees the whole thing absolutely clear and goes deep into it.  Not slipping about on the surface, quite different.  And the feeling is quite different, the feeling is from the heart.  And is very satisfying, very cooling, very firm[61:51]. 

Another thing that is worth realizing is the nature of calm.  Mindful calm is not to be muddled up with unmindful calm, TA said, "...when people listen to a Desanaa, given by an Ajaan, a state of calm can develop just by listening to it.  To the person it seems like going to sleep, a drowsiness, strange thoughts come up, and he doesn't know where from, and sees them as a kind of distraction".[62:41]  And TA says, "... and when this happens confusion sets in, so when one gets a bit of calm, one doesn't know it.  And one then tries to break it all up."  He said that this state of calm is valuable, and let it be.  He says that one shouldn't try to remember what has been said, just let it go in, if it goes in it's been understood just as one heard it, it will stick there. 

After the Desanaa one can't hardly remember a word of it, but it doesn't matter because it is all there.  And at the right time that can come up.  But this state of calm is important.  This fellow who is nodding off isn't just falling asleep.  The Citta is just drifting a little bit like this.  Often you get signs coming up, nimittas etc., and the skill of practice is to 
get to that state and to prevent it from actually going to sleep:[64:00] you have to keep it on the edge with 
mindfulness.  To recognise it, not to get restless and pull it out, but not to go in too deep so that it goes into sleep.

People don't realise, they hear of Samadhi, wisdom and so forth, but there are experiences in ordinary life that are 
close to it.  But people don't recognise them because they don't know what they are looking for.

[65:07]Have you ever had these experiences?  When drowsy when all sorts of things come up?  Nimitta sounds and 
sights and things?  Not external, but internal, calm and unaffected, all sorts of things coming up?  You find that 
sometimes.  It's quite good if you can get into that and hold it. 

But if a lot of Nimittas come up, don't take too much notice of them, don't get too interested, just keep on gently holding the practice at that level.  If one gets too interested mostly it will break with a black result.  Sometimes, particularly if they are frightening images, one gets absorbed, completely constipated, and that's bad because it's unpleasant, and fear can come up.  But one must see that all nimittas, either sound or visual are just that, mere sound, mere images.  Non of them are harmful: the harm comes from fear.  That's the danger, fear is the danger, not anything else.

It's common in the West for people to think that anyone seeing anything like this and hearing anything like this, is 
mad.  What people don't realise is that's not madness.  After all if one sees things like this, one sees it, that's all.  
Most likely it'll never happen, one just sees it, it's there.  What is madness is if you then think you are Jesus X or 
something of that sort: that is madness.  It's ones beliefs, ones thoughts that make one mad, not the images that 
come up.[67:40]

Q:
Certain types of people seem to have nimittas, and certain types of people go crazy.  Is it that people cling to 
them?[67:55]

LP P:
Sometimes you get someone getting nimittas such as a Red Indian Chief, and he'll start telling them something.  And 
he'll think, "... maybe I should be doing what he says."  And maybe to start with he'll start telling them things that 
are right.  But sure enough, later on he'll be telling them things which are pure Kilesa things.[68:20]  But really it's 
just a trick of the Citta to get down to that level.  If the person gets this coming up, it's a surprise, they don't know 
what it is.  It will probably be genuine, but once they start getting interested, "... huhar, I wonder if this will give me 
the lottery number?"  Then after a while a lottery number comes up, it's probably wrong.

The thing is, once their interest comes up, the Ks come up too.  In other words, this thing has bypassed the Ks 
because of a lack of interest, because of feeling something separate, like me.  But when one wants something, the 
Ks are immediately there all the time.  So then it's just vanity and it all goes on.

The general rule: to begin with, if nimittas come up, sight or sound, don't pay any attention to them.  If they come, 
they come: if they go, let them go.  Don't get interested, don't think about them, just keep on with the practice.  
That's the right thing.

Q:[70:00]
They don't mean anything, besides being nimittas in themselves.  Nothing to them, nothing significant.

LP P:
Tan Ajaan Mun once told TA, early on in his practice, these things came up.  One after another, on and on and on; 
for about six months.  And then for no apparent reason, they stopped, just like that.  So he then returned to 
investigating the body: body contemplation.

But they come up like this.  Sometimes you can learn something from them, particularly if they are nimittas of the 
body.  But mostly they're just junk from the past.  Sometimes you might see something psychic, something at a 
distance, something that happens tomorrow: sometimes, just chance.  But to get interested in that, to try to get 
control of it is all wrong.  We've got enough to practice all ready without cutting our throat any more(?!?!).  We can't 
even do it as it is properly.

If one starts to go into the psychic field, that's the field for delusion, there's no doubt about it.[72:00]  That can drive 
people mad: you've got to agree.  The opinions about it, the secret of it; there's a constant searching for this without 
any reason behind the searching, it's pointless.  If you've got psychic powers all well and good, one knows about 
them, but we're not after those, what we're after is Sukkha: we're overcoming Dukkha and the freedom one can get 
by practicing the way.  Another thing about them, nearly all of them are external, out there in the world, practically 
every one, whereas the right way of Dhamma is not in the world, is inwards, not outwards. 

There was a Maichee who came to Tan Ajaan and this woman, who had quite a lot of powers, she would know of 
people coming to the Wat before they arrived, see things that were going to happen, and so on.  So she spoke to TA 
about these things, and all TA  said was, "... but can you get inside?"

"No, I don't think I can."

"You can try, you must try."

So she went away and came back some time later saying that she couldn't.  But he insisted: "... You must, you've got 
to go inside, you can't just have one side, you have to have both; you can't just have an outside, you've got to have 
an inside as well.  You know what's outside, you've got to know what's inside as well.  You go away, you've got to go 
inside.  You can't come to see me again until you can go inside: go away!"

So she went away and struggled with it until she could eventually get down there.  She then went to TA and said, "... 
now I understand, all that's outside is worthless.  This is the only thing that matters: now I understand."

But he didn't tell her straight away, he just said, "...you've got to get inside as well."   And she did.

But this woman was one of those who are indeed quite psychic and she could do that sort of thing: most people 
can't.[75:10]