Forest Dhamma Masters: March 2006

Saturday, March 11, 2006

Happiness of the Sara.na Gamana Gaathaa

From a collection of papers left by the late Luang Paw Pa~n~naava.dh.dho

Happiness of the Sara.na Gamana Gaathaa

Literal Translation

Whoever goes to the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha refuges,
And sees the four Ariyan truths with right wisdom,
Dukkha, the arising of Dukkha, the surpassing of Dukkha
And the Ariyan eight fold path leading to the appeasement of Dukkha
This is indeed is the peaceful(1) refuge, this is the supreme refuge;
This is the refuge which having reached he is freed from all Dukkha.

(1) Calm, safe.

The Happiness of the Sara.na Gamana Gaathaa.
Chao Phra Khun Phra UpaaliGunupamaacaariya (Siri Cando Candra) at Wat Boromanivasa.

Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammaasambuddhasa.

Yo ca Buddhaa.nca Dhamma.nca1 Sa'ngha.nca Sara.na'm gato
Cattari ariya saccaani sammapa~n~naaya passati
Dukkha'm dukkha samuppaada'm dukkhassa ca atikkama'm
Ariya~ncaa.t.thangika'm magga'm dukkhuupasamagaamina'm
Eta'm kho sara.na'm khemam eta'm sara.namuttama'm
Eta'm sara.namaagamma sabbadukkhaa pancuccatii ti.

(1 Dhp. 190 Buddhavagga)

Here we will explain the happiness(khema) of the Sara.na Gamana which in ordinary language means a refuge which is excellent and truly able to dispel danger.

The gist of the above Gaathaa has a Dhamma meaning which is just right - not little, not much, not difficult, not easy, but suitable for the wisdom of one who needs it - suitable as being the true Buddha word. If one can meditate on the meaning of it clearly, truly and deeply, it may be a refuge which truly dispels Dukkha and danger also.

The essential meaning of this gaathaa may be translated as:-
"Whoever reaches the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sa.ngha, which are a refuge and a reminder (something to recollect) that can truly dispel danger, and sees the four Ariya Sacca with right wisdom, in other words seeing Dukkha, the cause of the arising of Dukkha, the freedom from Dukkha, and the path having eight parts that are the way of practice to attain freedom from Dukkha, which is the refuge of the most excellent happiness and the most supremely excellent refuge, he can them become free from all Dukkha and danger."

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From here on this will be explained in such a way that it may be a way of contemplation for those who have faith in this gaathaa. There are many people who remember correctly both the meaning and the translation of it, and maybe there are some who would object that; "we have reached the Sara.na Gamana and we have know, seen and correctly remember the Ariya Sacca but we can not see any freedom from Dukkha nor from Danger."

They should be asked; "in reaching the Buddha, how have you reached? and in what way will we know in ourselves that we have reached the Buddha?"

In answer, we must understand the Buddha bhuumi before we can know, but in truth this Buddha bhuumi is vast and beyond the ability and power of Pa~n~naa to give full explanation for the whole of it. However, we shall give a little bit of explanation, enough for one's Pa~n~naa.

All of us should indeed understand that those truths are the Buddha bhuumi of the Lord Buddha. He having, established the truth in himself, the truth is an aspect of his heart, it is the deathless Dhamma.

The Lord Buddha is one who is free from Dukkha because he has gone beyond correcting (curing) the causes of the truths, and whether his life continues or ceases, there is no deed for correcting (curing). There is no instability and change (impermanence) in the Lord Buddha. Birth and death are not in the Lord Buddha and life (Jiivita) has no power to bring worry and trouble to the Lord Buddha. The Lord is thus "Ane~njo" - Imperturbable.

Dukkha comes to the Lord but he has Sukha. Death comes to the Lord but it does not touch him. For the state of the heart of the Lord Buddha is one of purity which knows no death. The eye, ear, noes, tongue, body and mind, (mano) of the Lord are still there with no deficiency.

Form, sound, smell, taste, bodily contacts and Dhammaaramma.na which are good, pleasing to the heart and desirable are still there; as also are those which are bad, loathsome and displeasing to the heart.

(Vi~n~naana - special knowing - knowing the causes of the forgoing Samphassa is still there.)( "Samphassa" - contacts - are still there). But it is the nature of the Buddha bhuumi to have passed beyond fighting and curing.

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In other words, the external Aayatana are the causes both of good and bad in accordance with their respective functions. The internal Aayatana are the results, in accordance with their respective functions. The heart is the one who "tastes" impurity in accordance with its respective function.

They do not intermingle with the Lord and so they are "Cha.langupekkhaa". "Upekkhaa consisting of six parts". In other words, there is no disturbance (trembling) connected with the six Aaramma.nas because in truth they are the same.

Once again, in the Buddha bhuumi it is normal to know Dukkha, and to know the ceasing of Dukkha and both it's causes (hetu) and conditions (Paccaya). Because he has Aasavakkhaya~naa.na -knowing the end of the Aasavas - these Aasavas are "other" - in other words just the six external kinds of things.

Not knowing the truth in any way is Moha - faulty in the direction of Pa~n~naa. Then there arises greed (covetousness), then grasping, then drawing towards and accumulating (as garbage) in the heart, so there arises spoilt Dhaatu, sour Dhaatu. Deluded (Moha) Dhaatu arise and then they are given conventional names according to the characteristics of that Moha. Moha is then called Kaama, Bhaava, Di.t.thi Avijjaa. The Lord compared them with pickled foods, giving them the name Aasava.

Because these Aasavas are the cause, when deficiency goes in the direction of Kaama it gives rise to loving someone and gladness and pleasure in some things; it gives rise to anger, resentment, loathing, hate, sorrow and regret in some things.

The Lord Buddha had Aasavakkhaya~naa.na and therefore his Pa~n~naa knew the causes and conditions and that the external and internal Aayatanas are unreliable, changeable, and that they are causes and results of each other going round and round. They are the endless "round" ( Va.t.ta) (of Sa.nsaara).

3/4

When the Lord had been able to take hold of the causes, he diligently set himself to cure the causes until they all became results. Because in truth, when there are only results it means that the causes have already ceased to exist.

When the time comes for the dissolution of those external and internal things (Vattha), as accords with their nature, who is there to be sorrowful, sad and regretful because there is the same type of result everywhere.

When Pa~n~naa examines and grasps a cause and cures this cause it is called "Magga Samaadhi" When the result is completely manifest, it is called "Phala Samaadhi", and Aasavakkhaya~naa.na depends upon Phala Samaadhi having already arisen. This is the way of Pa~n~naa which is mixed in with Samaadhi.

The explanation given here, is given so that the Buddha bhuumi may be understood briefly, sufficient so that those who practice may be able to follow and consider carefully without going too deeply into it. When this has been understood, other aspects of the Buddha bhuumi will probably be understood according to what is heard beyond this.

Talking about the Lord Buddha as above, means the changing of our hearts so that they become transparently clean like the disk of the moon which is without blemish, the shadows (on the moon) coming only from the truths, so that they accord with the Buddha bhuumi. In changing our hearts so that they become transparently clean, we must think (meditate) in accordance with the teaching of the Buddha - in other words, just look within ourselves.

Everything whatsoever is connected with thought and desire. There is just change and turning into something other in everything of every kind. There is development and deterioration. There is grouping together and breaking apart. There is birth and ceasing. There is just noise and turmoil arising and ceasing everywhere, causing ones desiring to object to it in every situation (case).

Even if, one should have pleasures just as one would wish they would not be lasting and stable, and they are desires that are not suitable for the purpose (of what one desires). Like fire that always burns to destruction,they are in truth boring and troublesome, for the truth and beauty of the world do not last long. They are like fire-crackers or a firework display, they have power only in the chemicals and fire. They are colourful and bright and we like to watch and admire them, but in a short while (we have seen enough) and are satisfied, the chemicals are used up and the fire is at an end and the whole lot dies away and disappears.

All are unstable (Anicca), turning into (something else) everywhere. When one has examined and clearly seen the instability of the world, one must turn and look into the teachings of the Buddha. Is there anything that is unstable and untrue in it? There are things which were seen (above) to be unstable and changeable and there are the teachings of the Lord Buddha, which are unchanging respectively. That which is stable, lasting and constant is such as Siila, Samaadhi and Pa~n~naa which is the teaching of the Lord Buddha, and they are stable things, true things, lasting and constant.

When one is quite clear in one's mind that Siila, Samaadhi and Pa~n~naa are the teachings of the Lord Buddha and are always stable things and true things, then one should alter one's bodily actions, speech and heart so that they become Siila, become Samaadhi, become Pa~n~naa and become stable, true and in accord with the teaching of the Lord Buddha.

All those things which we saw to be unstable and the stable things are intimately mixed together. Those things which are seen to be unstable are shadows (or reflections) of the stable things, for the things which are unstable and untrue cannot display themselves. The stable, true things are thus the ones that are able to display themselves so that they can be seen. It is just that the one who looks at them does not understand and only wants to go an look at the unstable and untrue things. In other words, one wants old memories (Sa~n~naa) to look at and therefore one sees only things which are unstable and untrue, which accord with the story of one's old memories.

When one wants to look at stable, true things, one should turn one's mind to be acquainted with Dukkha, and with the ceasing of Dukkha as well as it's causes and conditions.
5/6

What is Dukkha? We are Dukkha.
What are we? The heart (mind) is what we are.
What is the heart? The "Centre" is the heart.
What is the "Centre"? It is amongst the Khandas.

Daatus, Aayatanas, Indriiya, Ariya Sacca, Pa.ticcasamuppaada. In other words, that knowledge is the "Centre". If that is so, is not that knowledge Dukkha?

That's it! That knowledge is Dukkha, and also Sukkha, and also neither Dukkha nor Sukha - which means "Vedanaa".

What are the causes (hetu) and conditions (Paccaya) that cause knowledge to be Dukkha, or Sukha, or neither Dukkha nor Sukha?

The eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and form; sound, smell, taste and things which contact are both the causes and the conditions that make knowledge to be Dukkha, or Sukha, or neither Dukkha nor Sukha. Which means that Vedanaa arises from Aamisa (things which lure the heart). In other words, external objects are the cause - which is called Aamisa dukkha and Aamisa sukkha. Dukkha and Sukkha are of equal value and have the same amount of Raaga. Someone who longs for the Buddha bhuume does not want Aamisa dukkha and Aamisa sukkha.

This means that when form, sound, ... things that cause contact are cause; the eye, ear, ... body, are bound to be the result. Then these in turn become a cause and the heart is the result so that Dukkha, Sukkha or Upekkaa arise in the heart - and because they flow (in) from the cause, from then on they become a " Dhammaarama.na" pair of the heart1.
(1 i.e. the object + the Venanaa form a pair in the heart.)

Because Dukkha and Sukkha are (then) the owners (in charge) of the heart - the heart then changes and becomes a cause, - in other words, it is the basis of Tanhaa and Upaadaana, and immediately the eye, ear, ... body, become the result, and then they in turn become the causes of Form, sound, ... things which contact (sic) which are the results. And they whirl around like this endlessly.
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Even if one follows them and searches for their beginning or ending, one will hardly be able to fine it and all one meets will be Dukkha. This heart lets Micchadi.t.thi come in to be its owner - and this means - not knowing what the Aaramma.na are up to, just this is called Micchadi.t.thi. In other words, old Sa~n~naa always waits (ready) to compare (thoughts and imagination) and to whisper so that (sic) any given time, that thing is seen as good, that thing as bad, that thing as pleasant and satisfying, that one as unpleasant and unsatisfactory, that person is a relative, that one is a friend, they are there, we are here, we have a fever, we are in pain, we are good, we are bad, we are beautiful, we are hansom, we can, we are spoilt, we will recover, we will die. All these are the story of delusion which accords with one's old Sa~n~naa, and this is entirely Micchadi.t.thi and Samudaya (the origin of Dukkha). One makes the causes and so one gets the results, which are nothing but Dukkha.

Knowledge such as this kind is called: knowing Dukkha and both its causes and conditions of it.

Previously it was said: Knowing the cessation of Dukkha and both its causes and conditions. What is this?

Knowing and seeing which are connected with (Sampayutta) Sammaadi.t.thi~naa.nadassana, which is the ~naa.na of the Buddha only. Others cannot know or teach, but only know following, see following, teach following and practise following truly the guidance in the teaching of the Lord Buddha.

In the Vibha.nga of Sammaadi.t.thi, it says: "Dukka ~naa.na'm dukkhasamudaya ~naa.na'm dukkha nirodhe ~naa.na'm dukkha nirodhagaaminii pa.tipadaaya ~naa.na'm" - knowing Dukkha, dukkha samudaya, dukkha nirodha, and the practise for attaining nirodha - knowing and seeing in this way is called Sammaadi.t.ti. Knowing and seeing which is connected with this Sammaadi.t.ti is what is called: knowing the cessation of Dukkha and both it's causes and conditions.

From here on, we will explain in accordance with the shadow which is cast from the light of the foregoing words of the Buddha (Buddha bhaasito) - enough to be a way of contemplation for Buddhists who wish to go further into the truth. Because where it says: "knowing the cessation of Dukkha and both it's causes and conditions," this is very deep (profound).

The causes and conditions of the ceasing of Dukkha are the eight factors of the path (Magga). This "Magga" means a way or path, but not a way on which one goes by vehicle or on foot. It is a way of practice by means of body, speech and heart - but it does not have the characteristics of coming and going.

To say that Sammaadi.t.ti, for example, is the way and that body, speech and heart are the ones that walk along it, and to say they have the characteristics of going is not right. On the other hand, to say that body, speech and heart do not go and do not walk along it, but that they just make Sammaadi.t.ti, for example, come, so that one increasingly has it and it is increasingly present within one and thus to say that it has the characteristics of coming, is also not right.

In truth, this world is filled with Dukkha, Samudaya and Nirodha, each respectively, which are together with us, and also with seeing wrongly and seeing rightly respectively, which are together with us here. So that one cannot "go" or "come" for the reason that they fill the world in which we live together with them.

Therefore the Yogavacaara, who searches for these truths need not go wandering, searching in various countries, for wherever he is he should search for them there. In other words, he searches for them just within himself, for wherever he lives the Ariya Sacca are there. In brief, they dwell in the heart which accords with the words of the Buddha that:
"Mano pubbangamaa dhammaa manose.t.thaa manomayaa":
The heart is there before all Dhammas, the heart is supreme, they are brought to completion by the heart.

But the reader must not wander away from the subject, because this heart can go into all the four Bhuumi, whereas here we are only considering the Ariya Sacca meaning of Dhamma.

In other words the meaning of "the heart knowing the heart",
of knowing purity to be a thing of the heart,
of knowing those (afore mentioned) objects (va.t.thu) to be the instrumental cause of "hooking" and attaching to be the Sa.myojanas,
of knowing the breaking of the Sa.myojanas - in other words, the breaking of the "hooking", attaching, composing thoughts and imagining - which is purely of the heart.

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In knowing within the heart1,
(1Lit: in knowing the parts of the heart)
the heart stops still, calm, quiet and normal, devoid of the Aayatana which add - or, devoid of the Sa.myojanaas hooking and attaching - both internally and externally, and one feels in oneself that one is pure, and one knows that the eye, ear, ..., body are pure also, and that form, sound, ..., things which contact are pure also. In other words, one sees truly and one sees what the truth is in all ways.2
(2.i.e. through all the senses and in all objects)
Instability (impermanence) and falsity drop away and disappear, and it all makes sense and fits in with what was said before, that Dukkha will cease because of the ceasing of the cause. But this ceasing is not nothing (Sa~nya), for it is the coming about of a result - which means just that all those things become pure.

That instability and falsity are still there and can display themselves, is because we still have not reached stability and truth, and Dukkha can still occur because we are still a basis for Dukkha (Dukkha self). And Anattaa can be apparent to us just because we ourselves are stil Anattaa.

If we had been able to reach stability and truth, Dukkha would have ceased, Anattaa would have ceased and there would probably only remain stability and truth, which are aspects of the Buddha bhuumi and are just the shadow which comes from Sammaadi.t.thi.

The meaning of, "knowing the ceasing of Dukkha and also the causes and conditions of it," which was said above, has now been explained.

~Naa.nadassana - the knowing and seeing of this Dukkha, the cessation of it and both its causes and conditions, this is called Sammaadi.t.thi. When Sammaadi.t.thi has arisen in someone, if he then contemplates or considers (thinks) anything it is Sammaasa.mkappo. 9/10 If he says anything it is then Sammaavaacaa. If he does any bodily action it is then Sammaakammanto. In whatever way he gains his livelihood, that is then Sammaa aajivo. If he puts forward effort in any activity it is then Samaa vaayaama. If he establishes Mindfulness (Sati) in any Aaramma.na it is then Samaa sati. If he establishes the Citta in any Aaramma.na it is then Sammaasamaadhi. And this is the practice of the Ariya Magga.

When one has gone along in accordance with the factors of the path, from what things should Dukkha arise?! Whoever knows Dukkha and the ceasing of Dukkha and both the causes and conditions of it, is said to have brought himself to the state of Siila, Samaadhi and Pa~n~naa and so he is called, one who has attained to the Ti-rata.na which is the immediate and genuine happiness and ease of the Sara.na gamana.

When one knows in oneself quite clearly that one is in the state of Siila, Samaadhi and Pa~n~naa, who will grow old, who will get sick in pain, and who will die? Can the truth cure pain and death?

Pa~n~naa - knowing and seeing - Dukkha, the ceasing of Dukkha and both its causes and conditions - this is the Buddha gu.na. The Dukkha, the ceasing of this Dukkha and both its causes and conditions - this is the Dhamma gu.na. The practices which are followed until there arises the knowing and seeing in accordance with the Parama Buddha vaada (the supreme way of the Buddha) - this is the Sa'ngha gu.na. Therefore the Ti-rata.na are said to be interlinked together as one, as it says in the Vakkali Sutta: "Yo dhamma'm passati so ma'm passati" - which means: "whoever sees Dhamma sees me".

Whoever reaches Buddha, Dhamma and Sa'ngha with knowing and seeing in this way should be considered to have attained the happiness and ease of the Sara.na gamana. It is the refuge that can truly free one from Dukkha and fear as in the above words of the Buddha1 -
(1At the beginning of the Desana)
and in accordance with the "Ariyadhana gaathaa"2
(2 Lit: the Ariya wealth gaathaa)
in the part where it tells of the four kinds of Ariyan "wealth", thus: "Yassa saddhaa Tathaagate ... etc." the meaning being:
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1. Who has firm faith in the Lord Buddha.
2. Who has Siila that is loved and praised by those who are Ariya.
3. Who has complete confidence (faith) in the Sa'ngha.
4. Who sees the Dhamma truly -
- this is the excellent Ariyan wealth.

Because faith in the Buddha is the cause, the Siila of that person is Ariyakanta siila3.
(3 Siila that is loved and praised by those who are Ariya)
Because this Siila which is lovely and praiseworthy is the cause, and (because) he has found happiness and contentment in himself - for there is no reason why things should trouble him - there arises confidence (faith) in the Sa'ngha, in other words, " Supa.tipanno".

Because faith in the Sa'ngha is the cause, he is one who sees true in Dhamma. Seeing true in Dhamma means that he has seen his own way, he has faith in himself and he has come to the end of doubts regarding the teaching of the Lord Buddha.

The Lord, therefore praised such a person saying:
"Adaliddoti ta'm aahu amoghantassa jiivita'm" -
that person is one who is not in difficulty, not in want, and his life (Jiivita) is not lacking in virtue and value.

EVAM Thus is the way of it.
(Thus it is.)

Advice to New Monks

Question:
I was just wondering, you've seen quite a number of new Bhikkhus' come and go: I was just wondering what kind of
advice you would have for a new Bhikkhu? I've seen quite a few come and go now, I just wondered what it is that
keeps them going, and what it is that stops them.

Luang Por Pa~n~navaddho:
Well, I would say one of two things:
One is nothing you can do anything about and that is Kamma. If one is that way inclined, well then that's it.

If not, there is another thing: if the new Bhikkhu would within the first year of being ordained, try to get to a good
teacher and work as hard as he can at Samadhi, because until one has a taste of Samadhi one doesn't know the
value of the Dhamma and the teaching. If a Bhikkhu doesn't get any Samadhi then he doesn't see the value of it,
[the teaching]. He reads the books, but (heh) paper and printers ink are not very tasty food: after a while the Citta
gets rather tired of it. After that one thinks, "Well what do I want to do this for? I'm just making difficulties for
myself and don't seem to be getting anywhere...", and they give up the robe.

But if a person gains some Samadhi, they know that this is right and this is good, and they've had the experience of
something which is more happiness than they've ever had before. Now if only they can get to that and maintain that
state things are OK.

So I would say the best advice for anybody who becomes ordained is:
"Get out of Bangkok as soon as you can and get to a Wat where there is a good teacher and get down to the
practice. And do the practice as hard as you can. For a long time. And don't stop doing it."

There is a great temptation, in many ways, to stop when you have got some experience and to want to talk to other
people about it: and it all just sort of fritters away.

[3:25]

Well the thing to do is to do the practice, learn the method and to not talk to other people about it.

There is the well known experience that if a person gains something or they find out something or they come to
know something, if they share that with other people, it's as though it spreads. Now this is found with bad things
very easily. If a person has got something bad in their past and they feel bad about it and feel some guilt about it
and they don't like it: if they talk about it to someone else, it is as though it spreads and this is easily done. Well the
same thing happens in the opposite direction with good things. If they talk about it with other people it becomes
much more ordinary and it looses its taste and one doesn't feel that it is so valid. So keeping these things to oneself
is very important until one has a lot of experience, until one is strong inside.

So I would say, the important thing is to do one's Samadhi practice and don't talk about it. If you gain something or
find some method of your own that works very well for you, don't go telling other people. Not until you have had
enough experience, are well used to that method and know it works well: then maybe, but not until then. This is very
important.

But the important thing for a new Bhikkhu is to get some experience, because if they don't have that there's nothing
really to hold them. Otherwise it's just theory, ideas and so on: and they've been doing that all along. So I would
say practice, get to the practice and get some Samadhi. It must be Samadhi: it is no good thinking about things, one
has got to keep onto one thing, like Buddho… Buddho… Buddho… just that; or Anapana, keeping the breath here
[at the nose tip] and stopping thoughts, stop the thoughts entirely.

When one's able to stop the thoughts, then one is in a position to turn them and to use them properly. Until one can
stop the thoughts, one hasn't got control of them, can't control them and they go everywhere: and become weak.
But having learned to stop the thoughts one can learn to put them where one wants them and to make use of them
and they become strong.

So the thing to begin with: stop the thoughts: learn to gain calm. People in the West need calm: they come from an
environment which is a hell of a mess. And because they've been influenced by such an environment, they're in a
hell of a mess too. And it takes them a long time to settle down and sort themselves out.

And they have to realize that they haven't got very long.[6:40] What I mean here is that they haven't got very long
before the Kilesas' start coming up and saying, "… hey what are you doing here? This isn't doing you any good!"
So they've got to work hard at it, go to a place where they don't have all the distractions. Where they can get down
to doing the practice properly.

Another thing I would advise anyone who has practiced Samadhi: stop reading. Particularly news magazines and
anything of that sort. One has to realize that whatever one reads or hears, it all goes into the Citta and that's food
for it and it will develop in that way: if one reads about the world, one thinks about the world: if it's food about bad
things, it thinks about bad things: If it's food about good things, it thinks about good things. But if one is trying to
stop thoughts then none of it's any good. So the best thing is: stop thinking. Stop all contact, reading and so on: and
talk with other people as little as possible. Keep to oneself, keep away, it's the best thing you can do. [8:06]

Q:
I find myself, I don't know if it is typical of all new Bhikkhus, or just me: I talk too much about stupid things, petty
things. I realize I'm talking about it, but just can't seem to have [the attitude that I should have] no business talking.

LP P:
Yes! One should watch oneself talking and then reflect on ones talking and think, "…well, did that talk do me any
good? What good did I get from it. What value was there in it? Did the other person get any good from it? One
should really think like this, we all make mistakes, I know, we all forget quite often: so most of us, in fact all of us
except the real Ach?ns, haven't got enough mindfulness.

But one has to apply this often and often and often until it starts to have an effect and then what happens is that one
thinks one is going to start to talk about something and one thinks, "…why? What's the point?" To oneself of
course: and then the teaching is beginning to have an effect.

Also I would say, for a new Bhikkhu: don't neglect simple things. I know new Bhikkus know about contemplating
food when one's eating and know one must try to be mindful when one is eating and walking, and they think, "…oh
well, these are just the simple things." But they are not, these things are very important. Although contemplating
food may seem to get no results, but steadily, steadily over time, it does get results, and one does get results from
it.

Another thing I would say for new Bhikkhus: one of the things that is difficult to control is R?ga Tanh?, sex. Now,
probably the most effective way of controlling this is contemplation of the body. If one finds RT is arising, and
everything is wrong, contemplate the body: traditionally this is the thirty-two parts.[24 -10:30] But anyway, see the
As?ba side of it, see it as a mess, see it as though it's all broken up, think of it as corpses and all that sort of thing.
Now you will find that you won't feel within yourself any special result, but you will find that the RT has dropped. So
a very good test for this is to watch a dream.

When one has a lot of RT there is a tendency to have dreams of a lot
of women and all the rest of it. When you do this contemplation the women don't come near you in dreams, you may
see them, but they don't come near you. Quite interesting, the effect it has: and it is almost as if something is
pushing them away somehow, but one doesn't quite know how.

I think this can work particularly with women, as women can get quite close and become rather a nuisance. Just
contemplate the body, think of them as a lot of bones, flesh and mess and blood and shit and so on and all the rest of
it. And you'll find that they are repulsed.

This is a protection that a Bhikkhu should have because women are very unstable and unpredictable, well some of
them, not all of them, just some of them, and one needs some protection. That is definitely an important thing.
[24 – 12:04]

Q:
Girlfriends and things just keep coming back. Just pop into my head. Is there any kind of pattern to this?

LP P:
Well if the girlfriend keeps coming into one's head, OK cut her head off. See the blood coming out, pull the meat
off, look at the bones. Now you'll find a repulsion from doing this, you'll think, "…oh I mustn't do that with her."
Why not? Not harming her. Just something in the mind. All it's doing is some damage to the image one has of her,
that's all: it won't harm her at all. So that's probably the best way to deal with that one.[24 – 13:02]

But one has to make the determination to do it. If one just lets it come up and doesn't make a determination, it
won't have any effect. The thoughts will just go on.

Q:
Another problem I've had, I don't know if it's typical of new Bhikkhus, I seem to have these emotional cycles.
Some days they're just fine, for a week it will be beautiful, and then – bang! – I don't know what happens, what ever
good results I've had just seem to evaporate.[24 – 13:40]

LP P:
Yes: that's how it goes, one's unstable. I have found these patterns often follow the weather: weather changes. You
may watch for that. The thing is you can then predict and see, "…oh, that's what the reason is."

Another thing that can cause them is food. Different types of food sometimes: but often, just too much. To much
food causes trouble with practice. A lot of people here go on fasts. If you do try fasting and you find it effective,
then use it: but use it with caution. What I mean by that is, don't go to excessive lengths with fasting: it's no good.
[24 – 14:30]

Generally, when TA went on fasting, he said he used to go for about a week, never more than that without eating.
Sometimes he went a week without eating, and then ate one day, and then go for another week, and ate one day, and
then go for another week and ate one day. But he always wouldn't go further than that. And it seemed to me that
what he did there was a very reasonable approach.[24 – 14:59] Otherwise you can get people who can almost get
addicted to fasting and it isn't a good thing. Anther thing you can get with people who fast, they start competing.
Somebody's doing a fast and they think, "…I'm going to go further than that." And that in fact is contrary to the
way of the Vinaya. It's wrong in the Vinaya, because it's doing it for the wrong reason.[24 – 15:34] Fasting should
be for the reason of developing the practice.

But fasting doesn't suit everyone, it was no good for me. I tried it and just lost all energy and the practice just got worse. So I didn't do it.

Q:
I tried various ways, for a few days or so, it wasn't difficult, I just didn't see any benefit from it. But I felt a little
conceited that I could do it.

LP P:
Well, if you don't find it of any benefit then don't use it: but what is probably quite a good thing to do is to test it
every now and then. Every several months just try a four or five day fast and see if it does have any effect.

Q:
What is it, [what does it mean to be] going on a fast Tan Aj?n? What should one expect at the best?

LP P:
It clears the mind, it prevents the digestion of food being a kind of 'load' on the mind. There isn't the tendency to
sleep, one tends to be more mindful, the mind is generally much brighter, one feel lighter and feels more like one
wants to do the practice. Those are the general ways of fasting if it goes properly. And one should use that time to
try and develop the practice to try and get as much experience as one can.
In Thailand there are many people now who say, "…oh, the way of Samadhi and all the things connected with it,
they're unnecessary, what you must have is Vipassan?. Now, all I can say is don't listen to them. TA was once
asked about people who talk about Vipassan? like this, and the lay questioner asked him if this was genuine
Vipassan?, or what is it?

So he said, "…well, there are some people who are thieves, and they say they are honest good people. But even
though they say they are honest good people, they still remain thieves: and he said it's like that. They talk about
it's Vipassan?, but in fact it's Samadhi. However much they say it's V it's still S. Because they are doing things
like breathing practices, or the belly movement practice, that's not a V practice, it's S, it's calm.[24 – 18:55] It's S
practice.

Q:
This V practice that's very popular in BKK, it's the Burmese method. They claim to attain Sotapanna in two weeks.

LP P:
The only thing is, if that was the case, why doesn't one see much of the results of it. I can't see that the people who
practice that are any better than the other people. Whereas the Ajaans that I've met, who are known to be real
Ajaans, they are different: and they show it. There's no ostentation about it, they just show it in their character and
their bearing; the general feel you have about them, the way they talk: you can see the difference. But these people
who do this practice, there's nothing you can see of it. That's all I can say. They may like to call themselves
Sotapanna, but personally I don't believe it. I don't think they know what Sotapanna means.[24 – 20:12]

Q:
According to some teachers in BKK, if you look down an average street, if you had the power, you'd see maybe a
dozen Sotapannas walking around. And that it is very common.

Another thing, Tan Aj?n, reflecting on the Bhikkhus I've seen. There's a longer term cycle too, set after three or
four years, when it suddenly seems as though one hasn't progressed.

LP P:
You can reckon that there are some Bhikkhus go fifteen years, and they then give up the robes, some more
than that, maybe twenty, there's no length, no time limit really. But then all you have to do is look at many of the
Bhikkhus that you see in BKK, and you have to reckon up, "…have these people really got anywhere?" And some
of them have twenty five years practice. Twenty five years in the Sangha, and so on. And you can see they haven't
got anywhere, these people. And when a person's like that, if the kilesas arise, they arise, and they give up the
robe. There's nothing to hold it.

This is why I said it is so important to get at least some experience of Samadhi. You've got to get something to
begin with quite early. Now one should consider that one has to work quite hard until one gets some experience.
Now after that, alright one knows what direction to go in. One can see the value. Then there is at least something
to hold onto. Unless one gets that, there's nothing.

Q:
I find it very difficult to keep Samadhi. I can reach it in meditation and everything is fine for a while, and then it just dissipates. And then I go back to talking in a kind of mindless way.

LP P:
Yes: probably the reasoning behind this is a lack of Saddha actually.[24 – 22:50] One can't link that Samadhi to
anything. It is difficult for Westerners not being brought up in Buddhism and they haven't got the Sadha in the
background. Because of that it isn't easy: for the Thais it is a bit easier in that way, they can get Samadhi and they
can then get back to the Buddha and so on.[23:14] They have a whole background in Buddhism. But still, that one,
you can't do anything about that. One's got to take the situation as one is. The only thing one can do there, really,
is: if one finds that it all drops away, one has then got to continually make a new resolve to get back there. One
knows it's worthwhile, one knows it's good, one's got to get back there.[24 – 23:54]

Q:
It seems that Saddha is one problem Westerners seem to have: are there other problems that Westerners have in
particular?

LP P:
Yes, DitthiM?na, opinionatedness: this is very bad, generally and very strong. Mainly because in the West we are
all taught everybody should have opinions, and because of that everyone is an expert on everything. And you can't
mention a subject without somebody saying, "…oh, I know everything about that." Whereas they've no idea at all,
and they give out their opinions. This is a very prevalent thing and one has to be very careful about DitthiM?na.

There are very distinct differences between opinionatedness and knowledge originating from Wisdom.
Opinionatedness tends to jump to conclusions without having any facts, without knowing any background. Whereas
the wisdom searches the whole field, looks the whole way round and searches the background, and sees cause and
effect, and because of that there is knowing. And that way the views are not DitthiM?na, not conceited opinion.

Conceited opinion just takes one facet without knowing the rest of it, and jumps to conclusions from that one facet,
without knowing the rest of it.[24 – 25:50]

Conceited opinion jumps to conclusions from one facet without knowing the rest of it. Westerners are very prone to
it. On the radio, in UK, we'd get somebody who was an expert on football, and he'd be interviewed and asked, "…I
wonder what you think of the present political situation." And this man would launch forth on it and knew nothing
about it at all. Complete nonsense, the whole thing.

Q:
I find I have a problem, just when I know I should keep my mouth shut.

LP P:
It is very important to try and know the Kilesas. Kilesas are the enemy, and one should know the enemy. By
knowing the enemy, one can become aware of when he is likely to attack, and one can come to know what are the defences. The first thing to realise, the Ks are always there. It isn't as though they're sometimes there and sometimes not: they are always there and there is no time when they're not. One can say that the Citta is completely ruled by the Ks, it is under the sway of them the whole time.

The Ks give rise to something we call 'self'. And this something we call 'self' is really the essence of the Ks. And we relate everything to this 'self' and that very relating is the Ks acting. And the outlooks we get are all in relation to self, and these outlooks are the Ks as well. Everything is coloured by them: everything is distorted. Because of
that we are completely subsumed by these things. And we don't know them, we don't see them because they are just part of us:[28:19] completely natural.

Now we've got to realise, these things are here all the time. We mustn't think that they're light things, things that don't matter very much. You think of the evil that some people do, the Nazis in Germany, the Japanese in China during the War, etc., etc. all this comes from the Ks. It's the Ks that drag one into the greatest suffering as well, they drag one into doing things that bring one suffering, they cause one trouble the whole time. They lead one to rebirth,
sometimes good, but sometimes bad too: so they're no small thing. And they're very sticky, they don't go easily.

And they're always defensive. One has to realise that they use the power and skill of the human Citta: that is why they are so clever, because they are using the Citta. Not that the Ks in themselves are especially clever, they are a
distortion of the Citta and use the Citta to think up their own ends.

And these are the enemy, and they are not an easy enemy to deal with. One has to learn to know it first of all, one must know them and see them in action. Generally one can't see them when they're acting because ones too caught
by them.[24 - 30:00] One should reflect to see how they made one do this or that, how they came out in this way: all the time.

At first one can't see the difference between what one would call one's 'self' and the Ks. But in time one does begin to realise that there is a difference: that the Ks are one thing and the Citta is another, and not the same. That the Ks usurp the Citta, and what they have produced is what one calls 'oneself' and this is an impostor: not the genuine thing at all.

The one that is genuine is very hard to realise, but the one that's genuine is like 'non-self', like it's not oneself at all. And this one is not at fault. This one you can call it the 'true Citta' or 'Dhamma' or whatever. And this is the one one's searching for. Searching really to become that. But that means one has to learn how to give up that which we call the 'self': and that's hard work.

One has got to train oneself until one comes to the position where one can do that. Until one gets to the position
where one can do that, there's no hope of giving it up. Can't just say, "...I'll give it up now.", because it is the Ks that are saying that. And the Ks, all they do is give up one thing and take up another.

Usually, what happens when someone tries to do it before it's time, they give up 'self' and then they take up the idea that, "...I'm an Arahant", or something like that, and all that has happened is that they've made another self and given it the name 'Arahant'. So they are worse off because they think they have nothing more to do. They've got
this view, this opinion that leads them in the wrong way all the time: if they can't shake that they are finished.

So the Ks are a bad enemy, in fact they are the only enemy. One can say that if anything goes wrong, if the practice doesn't seem to be going right, it's the Ks that are doing it, they are the ones. Often, they are dragging one down, so that one can't think straight. One can't make any resolution. And if you look, the thing they get hold of mostly is feeling. Just plain physical feeling, just around the stomach here, around the Solar Plexus: that's all, just that feeling.

If one can make the resolve, "...to hell with these feelings, I'm going to do the practice regardless of feelings...",
anyone can beat them. But you've got to keep on defeating them time after time: not just once. But one must learn steadily, bit by bit, to know these Ks, very important. [33:44]

Q:
I sometimes wonder, is there anything left besides Ks. They are so powerful.

LP P:
Yes: the Ks are powerful, but we still have the possibility of choice. And in any situation that arises, one always has the choice of whether to go in the right direction or the wrong direction. Now the right direction still has Ks in it, but it's leading to less Ks and thinning them. It's leading in the right direction to get free from them: but if one is going in the wrong direction, they are getting thicker. And the Ks try to bias it so that you go in the wrong direction. But one still has the choice to deliberately go against them: to go in the right direction. One hasn't got rid of the Ks by that, but one is going in the direction to get rid of them, that's all.

I mean, morality is that really. Whenever any problem in morality arises, to go in the right direction is to go against them. It's difficult because the Ks don't want one to go in that direction: they pull.

The enticement of the Ks is so often merely that of relaxation: feeling relaxed and at ease, which we want so much. Whereas going against the Ks produces tension, irritability, and one feels annoyed, out of sorts, constipated and all the rest of it. But the thing is, you are going against the Ks, and you are going in the direction to get rid of them. And all these things, irritability and so on, these are the Ks trying to pull one back.

More technically we can say, these are merely the results of bad Kamma in the past,[36:25] which arise, and because of the nature of the Ks, the arising of these bad feelings tend to induce one to go on a habitual path of going down hill - where one shouldn't go - to try to get rid of these unpleasant feelings. The trouble is if one goes in that direction one reinforces the Kamma that will produce those feelings in the future: so the wheel rolls on.[36:55]

So one's really got the choice all the time of whether to go in the right direction or the wrong direction. If one continually chooses the right direction deliberately, one not only starts thinning the Ks, but one gets the power and strength of will to go against them more easily and one gets more strength. Whereas, if one goes with them all the time, one just ends up as a jelly fish: [37:32] completely under their sway.

Q:
How does one begin to know if ones efforts are having an effect on reducing the Ks? Is there something, especially for beginners?

LP P:
One finds, I would say, one's own estimation of one's self-importance, I don't mean in theory, but one's feeling of it becomes greater. In the sense that - I don't mean in the bad way - of one's own worth, in oneself, quite regardless of what anyone else thinks. One's worth in oneself, one doesn't feel that one's like an old foot-rag. Inside one feels that one has something that's valuable. And that thing of value starts growing. And one finds also that there's
firmness inside. There's a firmness that is capable of fighting the Ks and going against them. All these things do show externally, but the external thing is not what matters, that's just a by-product: it's the internal thing that matters all the time.

Q:
Now I've had feelings of self-importance at times, but it's more in the sense of conceit I think.

LP P:
Yes: it's not self-importance where one's thinking about how important one is. It's just a feeling without doubts, in that one questions it, but it is still there.[39:35] And even though one questions it, it doesn't go. So you know it's genuine.[39:40] If one has the usual feeling of self-importance in the world, and one questions that and investigates it, it just bursts
like a bubble, because there's nothing to support it at all. [40:00]

Q:
One has to accept one is going the right way?

LP P:
Yes. Although one can't quite see what way one is going, one may not know what specific things one's done to go that way, what specific thing has helped. Yet at the same time, one knows one has developed, and one can hardly put ones finger on it. It is very hard to say what it is, but development has taken place. And one knows it, one knows one's changed. One used to be like that and one is no longer like that.

Q:
Other times I have a sense of impatience, things aren't going fast enough, maybe it is time for another fast or stay up all night and do battle with it, etc. And it doesn't seem to work.

LP P:
Hum: another western trait. Like you see in the magazines, "...rush me a copy of your catalogue." Impatience,
can't wait for it.

Q:
That's one thing I notice at WatPa Nanacat, it almost a frightening sense of shear will power people bring to it, to have results immediately. Seems admirable in a way, but frightening in another way.

LP P:
That's no good. The more one tries to push it in that way, the more the obstacles come up to oppose it: because that is Kilesas. The thing is it's, "...I'm going to get results", with the emphasis on 'I'. "...I'm going to force those results regardless".

Now, if that's under the control of a really good teacher, he might be able to use that faculty, that power. But when it's under the person's own control, generally what happens is this: If a person has a number of ways they can go, they will only see one or two of these ways and not see the others. And the way they should go is the way they don't see, because that's the way their Kilesas are, where they are strongest, because of their character. And because of
that they don't see that way, they only see this way and this is the way their Ks are not very strong: so they always go lopsidedly developing those things that they already have strong. And the things that really need development, they can't see, and they don't go that way, they go the wrong way.

Typically, people who are greedy characters always think they are hate characters, and people who are hate
characters always think they are greedy. The reason for this is, the person who is a greedy character, whenever
greed arises they don't see it, whereas whenever hate arises, it sticks out like a sore thumb, it's obvious to them,
and he thinks his character is rooted in hate. And he thinks, "...I must do the things to control hate...", whereas
that's not the way, it's greed that he must control.

That's one of the reasons why it is very difficult for people to develop Dhamma on their own, without a teacher.
Because one way or another the teacher will indicate the general direction that they should go. And Tan Achaan
here is very skilled at it.[44:21] He rarely tells somebody, "...you should do this practice ... should do that
practice...", very rare. He will suggest a range of practices, but one way or another, he will do things or indicate
things or say a little bit here or a little bit there and gradually steer the person one way or another: he's very good at
that. But, as far as it's within Dhamma, he won't force the person at all.[44:55]

Q:
Many people have different characters. Not just superficial characters, but deep tendencies. Can one adapt
oneself, or does one need a teacher to [do this]. For example, as for myself I can see that there are certain things I
could never do. I could never become a great teacher, I just know that. I just know my character, and wondered
how one could use that.

LP P:
As to whether you could become a great teacher, that you don't know. What you are at the moment probably
couldn't become a great teacher. But as one clears the Kilesas away, one changes entirely. And one doesn't know
what one is going to become: no idea. One could be utterly different from what one expected. In fact when results
come in practice, they come in a way that one never thought of. Something completely out of the blue. And the way
one expected results to come, if they come that way, they aren't very much.[46:30]

Q:
Do you think it wise for a new Bhikkhu to stay with the first teacher for five years?

LP P:
I would say that it is not good to take the attitude that some have, to stay with a teacher for five years regardless,
and they don't think about doing the practice properly. You've got to think of being with a teacher for five years as
being the period where one learns the practice, and learns what is necessary to be learnt, so that one can if one
wants go away on one's own.

To go away on one's own doesn't mean to go back to BKK. He goes to the forest to find a quiet place to practice
some meditation.

One of the troubles, now of course, is the way of the world has invaded the monasteries as well. The people who
become Bhikkhus now have been to school and sometimes to university, and they are completely infected with
Western traditions and views, and they haven't got a proper feeling for religion. This is a difficult thing to describe
really. It means that with the right outlook, it sees the religion as being the important thing, not the way of the
world. In other words, a Bhikkhu thinking in terms of the way of the world thinks in terms of expediency, how one
should behave in the world, what are good manners in the world. One should have knowledge of the way people
think and act in the world.

Whereas the way of religion isn't that at all. It is the way of what is true, what is correct, what is leading to freedom:
it doesn't like the sham of the world. The whole thing is an attitude quite a different from the worldly attitude. One
sees people in the world, and one feels sorry for them. One feels one would like to help them, but at the same time
one feels a certain disgust for them and the way they act. It's rather like that. Even good people, they don't do it
right. One sees the things they are interested in, the things that they do, the way they act; they laugh and make a
joke of it: but it isn't right.

This sort of thing is very important to the right attitude. This is the thing maybe just a matter of common [sense]
and true. It probably grows with the practice as well. This sort of attitude is not confined only to Buddhism, it will be
found in Xianity, Islam. Also the practice, but even now days that is getting harder to find, in Xianity as well.

Q:
It's more difficult for older people, ordaining latter in life, having spent so much more time in the world. More
difficult giving up things from when they were young.[51:47]

LP P:
At Wat Bowon, a very well known and rather elderly farung lady, (Mrs Stanton) asked me if it was better for people
to live in the world and to ordain latter in life. I replied,"...the Buddha said that one should not wait until the hair on
one's head have turned grey before ordaining". Given that she was completely grey at that time, I somehow think
that she did not feel too comfortable with that answer.

Q:
It would be more efficient to become a Bhikkhu first, and then go back into the world.[52:52]

LP P:
Ordination is far too easy in Thailand. People can ordain for as little time as a week. I don't see the point of this. It
may have some benefit for the person, but I'm not sure it is good for the Sangha. Brings the value of it down. But
it's tradition and you can't do anything about it.

Q:
I spent my first rains at Wat Bowon. During the year there were maybe fifty odd Bhikkhus, but during the rains
there were about a hundred and twenty, about twice as many. It had an incredible effect on the atmosphere, just
changed things completely. I found myself talking to the new Bhikkhus about all sorts of worldly things, because
that's all they knew. They were too young to be able to talk about anything but that. Had quite an effect on me. I
wouldn't recommend it to any new Bhikkhu.

LP P:
It's good for the Bhikkhus who are doing this, but it isn't good for the Sangha, it has an effect on other
Bhikkhus.[55:06] When a large number of new Bhikkhus come in all at one time like that there is a tendency for
them to form a group separate from the others, and that isn't so good.

Q:
It's probably better for new Bhikkhus to stay away from that, new Bhikkhus won't gain very much from that. Except
when there are classes etc.

LP P:
I haven't stayed at Wat Bowon for a long time, I don't go to BKK very much at all.

Q:
I was told by many new Bhikkhus that they will go to BKK for study, there being very good libraries, excellent for
study. They will get a good foundation from the books.

LP P:
I won't say the books are no use. They are quite valuable, but must be used in the right way. And the right way is
for them to prop up one's practice, though this isn't necessary. What I mean by that: if one's doing a lot of wisdom
practice, doing a lot of investigating. They can look things up and find what not to look for, and point out things, and
find some line of text which will set them thinking and start them working on that, quite a good object of Dhamma to
have in one's mind. Books can be quite useful like that, a mine or storehouse of potential for oneself. But for Samadhi it is different.

Tan Ajaan told us of when he first went to Tan Ajaan Mun, previously he had been a Bhikkhu for several years, and he learnt Pali up to Maha grade, he said he could read Pali, his teacher wanted him to go further with it, but he himself wanted to go off and develop practice.

And in due course got to Tan Ajaan Mun. He told him of some of what he'd done, and TA Mun said, "...all this forget, but later on it will be quite useful to you. But for the moment, put it all aside and forget the whole lot. It won't help you at all. Later when you develop, it can help you quite a lot." And he said he was like that.

Because the books are really dealing with an analysis of the way.[59:40] But until one has developed some calm if one tries to use that it won't be proper wisdom. One has to know the nature of wisdom. Wisdom is not thinking about like that. Thinking about can lead to wisdom if one has a basis of calm. But without the calm, it is just discursive thought and all that will do is produce restlessness.

So what one has to do is get a basis of calm to start with. There are a few people who can do it directly straight from the words, but they are very rare. It is something in the way of Zen, they start with the way of Wisdom and Samadhi can develop from that. But the majority of people can't do that and have to go the way of calm. [61:00] Then they find with time wisdom can turn to thinking.

The Citta is quite unlike restless thinking. It can go deep into one thing with ease and slowly work over the thing. It sees the whole thing absolutely clear and goes deep into it. Not slipping about on the surface, quite different. And the feeling is quite different, the feeling is from the heart. And is very satisfying, very cooling, very firm[61:51].

Another thing that is worth realizing is the nature of calm. Mindful calm is not to be muddled up with unmindful calm, TA said, "...when people listen to a Desanaa, given by an Ajaan, a state of calm can develop just by listening to it. To the person it seems like going to sleep, a drowsiness, strange thoughts come up, and he doesn't know where from, and sees them as a kind of distraction".[62:41] And TA says, "... and when this happens confusion sets in, so when one gets a bit of calm, one doesn't know it. And one then tries to break it all up." He said that this state of calm is valuable, and let it be. He says that one shouldn't try to remember what has been said, just let it go in, if it goes in it's been understood just as one heard it, it will stick there.

After the Desanaa one can't hardly remember a word of it, but it doesn't matter because it is all there. And at the right time that can come up. But this state of calm is important. This fellow who is nodding off isn't just falling asleep. The Citta is just drifting a little bit like this. Often you get signs coming up, nimittas etc., and the skill of practice is to
get to that state and to prevent it from actually going to sleep:[64:00] you have to keep it on the edge with
mindfulness. To recognise it, not to get restless and pull it out, but not to go in too deep so that it goes into sleep.

People don't realise, they hear of Samadhi, wisdom and so forth, but there are experiences in ordinary life that are
close to it. But people don't recognise them because they don't know what they are looking for.

[65:07]Have you ever had these experiences? When drowsy when all sorts of things come up? Nimitta sounds and
sights and things? Not external, but internal, calm and unaffected, all sorts of things coming up? You find that
sometimes. It's quite good if you can get into that and hold it.

But if a lot of Nimittas come up, don't take too much notice of them, don't get too interested, just keep on gently holding the practice at that level. If one gets too interested mostly it will break with a black result. Sometimes, particularly if they are frightening images, one gets absorbed, completely constipated, and that's bad because it's unpleasant, and fear can come up. But one must see that all nimittas, either sound or visual are just that, mere sound, mere images. Non of them are harmful: the harm comes from fear. That's the danger, fear is the danger, not anything else.

It's common in the West for people to think that anyone seeing anything like this and hearing anything like this, is
mad. What people don't realise is that's not madness. After all if one sees things like this, one sees it, that's all.
Most likely it'll never happen, one just sees it, it's there. What is madness is if you then think you are Jesus X or
something of that sort: that is madness. It's ones beliefs, ones thoughts that make one mad, not the images that
come up.[67:40]

Q:
Certain types of people seem to have nimittas, and certain types of people go crazy. Is it that people cling to
them?[67:55]

LP P:
Sometimes you get someone getting nimittas such as a Red Indian Chief, and he'll start telling them something. And
he'll think, "... maybe I should be doing what he says." And maybe to start with he'll start telling them things that
are right. But sure enough, later on he'll be telling them things which are pure Kilesa things.[68:20] But really it's
just a trick of the Citta to get down to that level. If the person gets this coming up, it's a surprise, they don't know
what it is. It will probably be genuine, but once they start getting interested, "... huhar, I wonder if this will give me
the lottery number?" Then after a while a lottery number comes up, it's probably wrong.

The thing is, once their interest comes up, the Ks come up too. In other words, this thing has bypassed the Ks
because of a lack of interest, because of feeling something separate, like me. But when one wants something, the
Ks are immediately there all the time. So then it's just vanity and it all goes on.

The general rule: to begin with, if nimittas come up, sight or sound, don't pay any attention to them. If they come,
they come: if they go, let them go. Don't get interested, don't think about them, just keep on with the practice.
That's the right thing.

Q:[70:00]
They don't mean anything, besides being nimittas in themselves. Nothing to them, nothing significant.

LP P:
Tan Ajaan Mun once told TA, early on in his practice, these things came up. One after another, on and on and on;
for about six months. And then for no apparent reason, they stopped, just like that. So he then returned to
investigating the body: body contemplation.

But they come up like this. Sometimes you can learn something from them, particularly if they are nimittas of the
body. But mostly they're just junk from the past. Sometimes you might see something psychic, something at a
distance, something that happens tomorrow: sometimes, just chance. But to get interested in that, to try to get
control of it is all wrong. We've got enough to practice all ready without cutting our throat any more(?!?!). We can't
even do it as it is properly.

If one starts to go into the psychic field, that's the field for delusion, there's no doubt about it.[72:00] That can drive
people mad: you've got to agree. The opinions about it, the secret of it; there's a constant searching for this without
any reason behind the searching, it's pointless. If you've got psychic powers all well and good, one knows about
them, but we're not after those, what we're after is Sukkha: we're overcoming Dukkha and the freedom one can get
by practicing the way. Another thing about them, nearly all of them are external, out there in the world, practically
every one, whereas the right way of Dhamma is not in the world, is inwards, not outwards.

There was a Maichee who came to Tan Ajaan and this woman, who had quite a lot of powers, she would know of
people coming to the Wat before they arrived, see things that were going to happen, and so on. So she spoke to TA
about these things, and all TA said was, "... but can you get inside?"

"No, I don't think I can."

"You can try, you must try."

So she went away and came back some time later saying that she couldn't. But he insisted: "... You must, you've got
to go inside, you can't just have one side, you have to have both; you can't just have an outside, you've got to have
an inside as well. You know what's outside, you've got to know what's inside as well. You go away, you've got to go
inside. You can't come to see me again until you can go inside: go away!"

So she went away and struggled with it until she could eventually get down there. She then went to TA and said, "...
now I understand, all that's outside is worthless. This is the only thing that matters: now I understand."

But he didn't tell her straight away, he just said, "...you've got to get inside as well." And she did.

But this woman was one of those who are indeed quite psychic and she could do that sort of thing: most people
can't.[75:10]

Kilesas, the enemy

A segment from a talk with a recently ordained Bhikkhu. Maybe some time in 2003.
Q:
I find I have a problem, just when I know I should keep my mouth shut.

The Ks give rise to something we call 'self'. And this something we call 'self' is really the essence of the Ks. And we relate everything to this 'self' and that very relating is the Ks acting. And the outlooks we get are all in relation to self, and these outlooks are the Ks as well. Everything is coloured by them: everything is distorted. Because of that we are completely subsumed by these things. And we don't know them, we don't see them because they are just part of us:[28:19] completely natural.

Now we've got to realise, these things are here all the time. We musn't think that they're light things, things that don't matter very much. You think of the evil that some people do, the Nazis in Germany, the Japanese in China during the War, etc., etc. all this comes from the Ks.

It's the Ks that drag one into the greatest suffering as well, they drag one into doing things that bring one suffering, they cause one trouble the whole time. They lead one to rebirth,
sometimes good, but sometimes bad too: so they're no small thing. And they're very sticky, they don't go easily.

One has got to train oneself until one comes to the position where one can do that. Until one gets to the position where one can do that, there's no hope of giving it up. Can't just say, "...I'll give it up now.", because it is the Ks that are saying that. And the Ks, all they do is give up one thing and take up another.

Q:
I sometimes wonder, is there anything left besides Ks? They are so powerful.

But one still has the choice to deliberately go against them: to go in the right direction. One hasn't got rid of the Ks by that, but one is going in the direction to get rid of them, that's all.

Q: How does one begin to know if ones efforts are having an effect on reducing the Ks? Is there something, especially for beginners?

LP P: One finds, I would say, one's own estimation of one's self-importance, I don't mean in theory, but one's feeling of it becomes greater. In the sense that - I don't mean in the bad way - of one's own worth, in oneself, quite regardless of what anyone else thinks. One's worth in oneself, one doesn't feel that one's like an old foot-rag. Inside one feels that one has something that's valuable. And that thing of value starts growing. And one finds also that there's
firmness inside. There's a firmness that is capable of fighting the Ks and going against them. All these things do show externally, but the external thing is not what matters, that's just a by-product: it's the internal thing that matters all the time.

Q:
Now I've had feelings of self-importance at times, but it's more in the sense of conceit I think.

Q:
One has to accept one is going the right way?

Q:
Other times I have a sense of impatience, things aren't going fast enough, maybe it is time for another fast or stay up all night and do battle with it, etc. And it doesn't seem to work.

LP P:
Hum: another western trait. Like you see in the magazines, "...rush me a copy of your catalogue." Impatience,
can't wait for it.

Typically, people who are greedy characters always think they are hate characters, and people who are hate characters always think they are greedy. The reason for this is, the person who is a greedy character, whenever greed arises they don't see it, whereas whenever hate arises, it sticks out like a sore thumb, it's obvious to them, and he thinks his character is rooted in hate. And he thinks, "...I must do the things to control hate...", whereas
that's not the way, it's greed that he must control.

That's one of the reasons why it is very difficult for people to develop Dhamma on their own, without a teacher. Because one way or another the teacher will indicate the general direction that they should go. And Tan Achaan here is very skilled at it.[44:21] He rarely tells somebody, "...you should do this practice ... should do that practice...", very rare. He will suggest a range of practices, but one way or another, he will do things or indicate things or say a little bit here or a little bit there and gradually steer the person one way or another: he's very good at that. But, as far as it's within Dhamma, he won't force the person at all.[44:55]

(FDN)Basically, this seems to be the unknown conditioning of the Citta, by the resultants of past Kamma, as they ripen in the present moment, of which the Citta is totally & completely unaware.

Thus the perceived need to creat skilfull Kamma in this lifetime, over & above any good Kamma, so as to have skilfull Kilesas in a future lifetime.

Needless to say, the most skilfull Kamma is Bhikkhu ordination so as to develop the Path, ie the Bhikkhu life. This makes the Bhikkhu a virtual field of merrit for anyone else to share in, simply by choosing to support his practice.

(FDN)The dialogue below seems to be consistant with the results of developed minfulness. In that, going against the K's, going towards fear, awkwardness etc., is possibly the best excercise in mindfulness that there is.

Q:
How does one begin to know if ones efforts are having an effect on reducing the Ks? Is there something, especially for beginners?

Friday, March 10, 2006

Conversation with Ajahn Panyavado

(Wat Pa Baan Taad, Dec. 1996)

Question: What is the role of spiritual companionship and mutual support in dealing with various emotional difficulties, emotional lack, especially in the case of Westerners? Maybe we do need more of this....

AP: Companionship is very important, the Buddha said that. But it should come about by the practice. If the companionship is not right, it's usually because one's thoughts are going out all the time. One is thinking about other people all the time, and there may be some criticizing of other people, thinking badly about them for doing this or doing that -- this is where the trouble comes. If one turns and puts all the criticism on oneself, then there's usually no problem. And one should also have metta for the others. The first thing is, one should not think badly about them, bad thoughts. This is very important. One must avoid bad thoughts. Any bad thoughts... okay, never mind, that's none of my business. Put them outside. Because one has to realize, if one has bad thoughts, that's going to infect oneself also, it's going to infect one's own world. So the thing is to keep the bad thoughts out. And also one should think that these people are bhikkhus, they are keeping a standard of sila which is higher than the average person, and because of that they are worth respecting. The best thing is then to drop it completely from one's mind and go back to one's practice. Because if one's doing the practice, if one gets any results in the practice, the concern with other people drops away. One gets on with other people quite easily and one is not terribly interested in what they're doing, what they're saying....

Question: Some Western bhikkhus have tried doing the traditional practice but found that it hasn't been successful for them because they have some culturally conditioned neuroses of various kinds which seem to be a preliminary obstacle to more refined levels. To what degree, in what way are Westerners different from Thais?

AP: I don't think that Westerners are very much different from Thais, really. There are some differences, but not much. As for the emotional troubles... they are kilesas after all. What's required to deal with that is to control the mind. If people won't control their minds, then the mind will always be thinking about these things, and when we think about these things all the emotional troubles immediately start coming up. Because they are thoughts after all, the first aspect of kamma. It is the asavas, the citta flowing out into thoughts. And if it goes strongly, it flows out into speech and then into action. This is the way of trouble. If we can keep the mind on the parikamma (meditation object), just on that, there is no problem. If you look at the hook-ups and hang-ups of people in the West, of course, practically all of them come from thought, from thinking about things. If they stopped thinking about things, they would have no problems. These are called arammana, arom in Thai, 'emotional hang-ups' in one way or another. When there are emotional hang-ups like that, see that they stimulate certain ways of thought, so that the person tends to think in that direction. But if you look, all you have to do is cut those thoughts -- and there is no problem, the problem disappears. The thinking is the problem. When you get people in universities and students having break-downs, it's because they are thinking too much, they never give their cittas any rest. The cure for that is to practise and to stop that thinking. When you stop that thinking, there aren't any problems, it's just like that.

AP: Well, when you look at it, all of those -- anxiety, loneliness, depression -- these are modes of feeling. They are arammana, and they give rise to modes of feeling. And when these feelings come up, then thoughts come up that correspond to those feelings. Say, depression... a person has depressed thoughts coming up, they grumble about the place, they feel bad and all the rest of it, it's their thoughts that are the trouble all the time. If they get down to look at their feelings, question them and analyze them, to look at what sort of feelings they are, then they will overcome them. But what happens is that the person gets a certain feeling, a feeling of depression, and instead of looking at it they start thinking in ways which correspond to that feeling. And once they are thinking in ways which correspond to that feeling, their minds go out, out into the world: "Oh, this is a terrible place, what's this life about, I don't want to live in this..." You'll find that there is always these thoughts going on creating trouble. If you turn around, put the citta inside and look inside at these feelings, anybody can overcome them. But it requires effort, and what's often lacking is the effort to do it, to be willing to do it. It's very often the fact that people who've got things like depression coming up, they cling to that depression. The kilesas want it, because it gives them a feeling of self. Without that feeling of self, they feel lost. This feeling of self is very important because it drives all sorts of things. To get a feeling of self, people will do all kinds of silly things, even in some pathological cases mutilate themselves.

Question: Isn't there a great difficulty in bringing the Buddhist teachings from Thailand to the West?

AP: I don't see why the teachings shouldn't go to the West. After all, people are born in the same way as they are in the East, their minds work the same way, the fundamental problems are the same, they've all got dukkha in the same way -- why shouldn't the method work in the same way? I don't mean that one has to transport all the traditions, that's not necessary, but the teaching is necessary. That can work in the West perfectly well. Of course people are used to their ways of thinking in the West, and they have to give up some of those... but they can do it.

Tuesday, March 07, 2006

Bhikkus who are fearless and resolute

Venerable Acariya Maha Boowa
Wat Pa Baan Taad
June 5, 1979

Translated: Achaan Sudchaad

No race of people living on this Earth without any exception lives in isolation. People of every country live in groups, forming societies, forming circles of families and friends. It would be correct to say that people are cowardly and it would not be wrong to say that people have to socialise and be involved with one an other.

With us Bhikkus, who are fearless and resolute, we should live alone in seclusion. But fundamentally we still have to live in groups and in company. We still have to have contact with our peers, though we spend most of the time wandering around and living in seclusion and solitude. But from time to time there will be the occasion and necessity to come into contact with our peers and our teacher to ask some of the questions that we might have arising from our practice and to listen to further instruction about the truth and Dhamma. So in the end we are also classified as social animals with the exception that our way is different from that of the other people.

The traditions, customs, rules and disciplines of the Bhikkus and the laity are different from one an other. The traditions and discipline of the Bhikkus follow the rules of Dhamma and Vinaya and therefore in all our conduct and behaviour we must conform to the principles of the Dhamma and Vinaya. We also have to be mindful of our thoughts and of which way they are going. We have to be concerned with the morals of it and whether this thinking is going in the right or the wrong way for it is still possible that even if we are not going against the Vinaya we could be going contradictory to the Dhamma. To break the Vinaya is a grosser offence while breaking the Dhamma is a more subtle offence. They are all the work of the Kilesas and that is why we have to be careful for we are here for the purpose of overcoming and correcting the Kilesas. We must not take these thoughts lightly. Our actions of body and speech that we exhibit when we communicate with our peers must be watched and observed. Whether we are living in seclusion or in company with our fellow Bhikkhus we have to be mindful of our conduct and behaviour. We have to be observant of the rules and the discipline which is the Dhamma and the Vinaya.

This is our path and we cannot let go of it. When we live in company we have to follow the traditions, the rules and the disciplines of the society that we are living in, and this is the society of the Bhikkhu. The laity have their own laws and customs to govern themselves. They have their own ways and customs which are of a coarser nature as they are not very strict with their behaviour and conduct. It is not like the way of the Bhikkhu. Speaking from the principle of the one who has gone forth, the Bhikkhu must be careful at all times and be mindful and observant of all his behaviour and conduct; every action of body speech and heart, in all postures. We are now living together in company and this company is made up of varying temperaments and personalities. We bring with us our own ways and habits. The core of our personality and character is our own unique thing. We have to realise that these are each individual traits. We have to be vary careful when we exhibit our own personal traits.

The conduct and behaviour that goes contrary to the principles of Dhamma and Vinaya and the conduct and behaviour that affects and disturbs our fellow Bhikkhus are not considered as traits and personality. Every one of us here must therefore be very careful and be cautious and vigilant for this is the way of maintaining peace and harmony amongst ourselves who are living together. This is the way of preventing any trouble from arising. It is as if we are all of the same organ. Our practice of the chaste and holy life will flow smoothly for there will be no mental hindrances or any Sa~n~na Aramana arising from this way of living together. There will be nothing to menace and trouble the heart, keeping it in a state of confusion and agitation and preventing it from becoming calm as one tries to develop the practice of Sammadhi. For this reason we have to be vary careful and vigilant. All of us have to bear this well in mind, that we are now Bhikkus.

We must maintain our status of the Bhikkhu, both in our hearts and in our behaviour, conduct of speech, and bodily action. We have to make sure that they don't affect and disturb other people. As far as conceit and snobbery is concerned, this is directly the work of the Kilesas. We have to consider them as antagonistic to ourselves and we also have to consider them as inimical to our fellow company. We must not exhibit them by splashing them around and hurting everyone around us as this is just the way of spreading filth and destroying happiness. This is especially so in the circle of the Kamatana Bhikkhu which is of a very subtle class of people. Our behaviour and conduct is subtle and refined for it conforms to the principle of the Dhamma and the Vinaya. This subtlety and refinement does not come from any unestablished principle. We follow the principle of the Dhamma and Vinaya as our way of practice, for the principle of the Dhamma and Vinaya is of the most subtle and refined nature. We will be able to see this clearly when we practice in the way of developing our heart.

The more refined the heart becomes the more will we be impressed with the subtlety of Dhamma. But at the same time the Kilesas will also become correspondingly more subtle so we must not be complacent and take them lightly. We always have to be vigilant. The happiness that arises from living together is the consequence of each one of us being careful and cautious, mindful of our Kilesas and preventing them from exhibiting themselves. For this is just the way of disturbing ourselves by causing us to become sad and gloomy. At the same time it also affects and disturbs others by creating Sañña Aramana in those people such that they cannot live in peace for they always have enmity and aversion within themselves. This will principally damage the work of Bhavana. Even if there are no Sañña Aramana arising from trivial matters it is still very hard and difficult to practice Bhavana. This is because in the Citta there is a natural process that constantly pushes the Citta into thinking and concocting about this and that which just disturbs and incites oneself to become confused and in a state of chaos to the extent where one cannot enter into calm in spite of the fact that one is striving in the exertion for the development of calm.

This is how the Citta normally is and when there are other matters and problems to become involved with the Citta then it is like adding fire to it which will only afflict it with more troubles and strife. At the same time this will spread out to other people who happen to be living together thus causing these people to be unable to live in peace and happiness. One just builds up a lot of evil and bad Kamma for oneself and others. This is not something that one who is a practitioner and who strives in the eradication of all forms of evil, weakness, and malignancy should be doing while living together to be peaceful and harmonious. Each of us has to oversee himself. We must have self control and discipline. Our behaviour and conduct must not go in the way of the Kilesas. This is the basic principle of living together.

When there are no clashes or friction and when we all follow the principle of reason, truth, and follow the way of Dhamma as our path of practice, then there will be no pride or self esteem. We will only uphold what is right, based on the principle of Dhamma as the crucial factor. Even though the Citta might not attain to calm, at least there will be no Dukkha, as the Dukkha will not be able to arise when we have left no room for it to come about. This is one form of peace and happiness. This is living together harmoniously, among friends and among good people. We should not look at each other with enmity but rather in the light of reason. If there is the necessity and due reason for us to become involved and in contact with one another we should allow ample room for Metta and make allowances for other people's mistakes. Let bygones be bygones. This is the way of the practitioner.

We should not look at others in the light of animosity and enmity. When we see anyone break away from the principles of the Dhamma and Vinaya we must warn and admonish him. We must gladly take and listen to any warnings and admonishments from our fellow Bhikkus, listening in the light of Dhamma for the purpose of correcting the wrong that we have committed so that we can conform to the right and the proper way that has been pointed out by our peers. This is the proper way for both parties, both the one who gives the admonishment and the one who takes the warning. The one who admonishes does so in the light of Dhamma. He does not do it out of displeasure or dislike or for the sake of finding fault or to humiliate and embarrass the other person.

The one who takes the admonishment does so in the light of Dhamma. He respectfully takes the warning and the pointing out of his fault by this other person as if he is being shown a store of great treasures. This is right and proper for both sides. Living together in harmony is important. If one of the members of the company behaves in a way that goes contrary to Dhamma, disturbing and annoying other people then it will have an effect on every other member of the community. For this reason, living together means that each one has to be careful and cautious. There should always be forgiveness and pardon for one another befitting our status as the practitioners of Dhamma who are filled with Dhamma within their hearts and being principally endowed with Metta and Karuna; love and compassion.

For this is the basic constituent of the Citta, of the practitioner. A practitioner must normally always cultivate Metta towards all living beings. Sabbe satta avera hontu and so forth. Furthermore, one also cultivates the Metta sutta and the other suttas dealing with the Brahma Viharas. A Bhikkhu must always cultivate these thoughts. What I have shown here is only an example. It is for you to take it up and develop it in your practice. The cultivation of Metta is for happiness and coolness. Furthermore you have to cultivate and develop yourselves in the development of Citta Bhavana. Don't engross yourselves in the thoughts of animosity and distaste for anyone. You have to consider that we are living together, following the way of Dhamma.

Always be forgiving and magnanimous. A Bhikkhu is one who can sacrifice everything. A Bhikkhu is always forgiving. If a Bhikkhu cannot make allowances for others then nobody else can. This is the crucial principle of the Bhikkhu. When we live together then we will be living in peace and harmony, in happiness and coolness. This is the basic principle of the governing and overseeing of a community. It is for this reason that it is not possible for me to expect too many Bhikkus. I have already investigated this. I am not really concerned that there might not be enough of the living requisites to go around for I am looking from the standpoint of supervision. When one has to oversee a lot of people one may not be able to give a lot of attention to everyone. There is also a greater possibility for one of us to cause damage and disturbance to the rest of us. There would then be chaos and trouble for the whole community in the monastery. This is not good or desirable. But when I can maintain the numbers of you here at the optimum level then my instructions to you can be to the fullest benefit and I can give you all the necessary attention.

When things run to excess it is usually mediocre. When there are too many of us then whatever we do we tend to drag behind. For instance, the time that we spend eating would be much longer instead of shorter. We'd have to spend more time in arranging things and making preparations for things. By the time that we finished our chores it would be quite late in the day. What ever we do would take a lot more time. There would be a lot more work to do just to take care of each one of us. The more people we have the more work that we have to do. This then just turns into entanglements and worries and then we will not find the time that is conducive to the exertion of our heart's practice. This will not impart us with any benefit or advantage. For this reason I only accept just enough. I have a lot of Metta and compassion for my fellows in Dhamma. How can I not have any compassion for those who are sitting for Dhamma? I also used to be a junior Bhikkhu who was searching and looking for a teacher. I had to go through many teachers before I finally ran into Tan Acchan Mun. I sympathise and understand your feelings and your predicament for I have to put myself in your place. Otherwise, I would not know how to deal with you.

This is because both of our predicaments are of the same nature for we are in the same boat but the reason why I can only accept to many of you hear is because this is just about the right number. If I take any more it will be excessive. Things can go sour if there are too many. The possibility of people making a mess of things is far greater and there would just be a lot of clumsiness and incompetence and it would just be a nuisance for me. The way things are now, some of you might think that this temple is very strict and very resolute and very rigorous and scrupulous. This is because you haven't seen how I practised in the past. I can see this from the lay people who applaud this temple as being unsurpassed by any other monastery, concerning our strict observance of the rules and the discipline of orderliness, neatness and cleanliness and all the Bhikkus who seem orderly, obedient and well behaved. They don't seem to misbehave or misconduct themselves or show any signs of perversion and mischief. This is how they sing our praises.

But we should not indulge in this sort of thing for I have really been very lax with all of you. And what is the reason for this slackness? It is simply because there are just a lot of you now and this laxness is the natural consequence of it. When there are more of you this laxness increases and the number of the gifts and the living requisites also increases correspondingly as you all can see. But our practice and exertion does not become more rigorous and intensive. There are also a lot more people that come into contact and involvement with the monastery. So the more people there are, the more work and preparation there is for things.

But there isn't much that we can do about it as this is the Satta and conviction of people. They come on their own. It is something done out of their own personal inclination and nobody can prevent another from doing this. The amount of food that we are getting nowadays is grossly in abundance. This excessiveness of the living requisites and of the gifts and offerings can weigh down on the practice of Citta Bhavana. If one is heedless then it is possible that one can steadily degenerate. For this reason, the practitioner must constantly see the harm of these things. He must not become intimate with anything for once he does the Citta will become buried within those things, consequently destroying one's own Dhamma. One will never be able to progress.

One must therefore be vigilant. The doing of the practice is extremely crucial in the field of Citta Bhavana. One must be courageous, firm, contentious, and resolute. One cannot be weak or discouraged for one can go down the drain and not be able to come up with any beneficial results. One has to always instil within one's mind that every type of Kilesa is extremely tenacious. They are far more clever and cunning than we are. If we just play the fool and practice heedlessly and senselessly we will never be able to subdue or eliminate any of the Kilesas because normally the Kilesas are all powerful within our hearts. They are a lot more shrewd and crafty than we are and that is why they are our master.

We might think that we are the masters but truly we are not. We are just the attendants of the Kilesas without being aware of it. In all the forms of thinking and concocting that come out of the heart it is always because of the commands of the Kilesas. They direct us to think about this and about that and this in turn agitates the heart. This is not caused by anything else but the Kilesas of various sorts that push and press out. This thinking process then creates a lot of agitation and confusion, building up hatred and aversion. Love and anger are all the works of the Kilesas. Can we not see that they are harmful? How can we consider ourselves more clever than them and as capable of outwitting them? We are always following their lead every moment that we think. We never realise that hatred is just the work of the Kilesas. We never realise that anger is also the work of the Kilesas and it is the same with love and aversion. We are not aware that these things are the strategies of the Kilesas that push and propel these things into being.

But if we are capable of knowing this at every moment, the Kilesas will definitely be subdued. This is a crucial point for the practitioner. We must constantly keep this well in mind. We have to realise that there is a very great difference in skill and aptitude between ourselves and the Kilesas. But how can the Kilesas be conquered? It is nothing else but our Sata, Sati, pa~n~na, and diligent effort acting as the support. Satti is terribly important. Pa~n~na is the tool that does the work of analysis and examination, countering and contending with the Kilesas. Sati is the overseer of the work, making sure that we do not lose our guard. And when we have relentlessly developing and exerting ourselves, Sati will become highly developed. It will then become the constant awareness. This is the outgrowth of mindfulness and beyond constant awareness it will become Maha Sati.

It is likewise with Pa~n~na which has to move with difficulty in the beginning. Please don't have the understanding that Pañña will arise by itself. One has to devise the various means by thinking and doing a lot of contemplation and analysis. One has to be versatile and many sided in one's mode of thinking. In what ever way one can eliminate the Kilesas and subdue and calm them down, that way is Dhamma. This is the Pa~n~na Dhamma. We must not be entirely dependent on the texts for otherwise we will turn into worms eating up the paper. All the Dhamma that the Lord Buddha taught came out of his heart. The Dhamma is found within the heart. Sati Pa~n~na is found within the heart. We have to bring them out. We have to produce them. Then we will be able to see into the principle of cause and effect and use it to contend with the Kilesas for the Kilesas are extremely cunning and cleaver. They are always our master in every instant of our thinking and concocting and during every moment of contact through the eyes, ears, nose, tong and body which all converge and become the Dhamma Aramana right within the heart.

These are all the works of the Kilesas and the reason why we still cannot see the bane of the Kilesas is because we are still a lot more foolish than they are. If we are a lot wiser than they are then when they begin to concoct we will know. We have to strive in this way and then the result will be as I have just said without any doubt. You have to be constantly developing and training your Citta.

The practice of fasting is a very good way of reducing restlessness and agitation. It is one means of supporting our exertion. The practitioner who practices fasting must be careful every time he fasts. It happened to me so I am giving you some precautions. In the beginning stages of fasting the Citta will become consistently cool and calm. The Citta is fully possessed with Sati and one is hardly ever off guard. But when one begins to take some food then one begins to become unmindful and inattentive which is something quite normal, but we have already acquired the past result. However, later on, when we go back to fasting it doesn't seem to work the same way. Instead of becoming cool and calm like before it doesn't happen that way. One then becomes disappointed and saddened. The Citta now turns into Sa~n~na Aramana by trying to take hold of the Sati that one established in the previous exertion making Aramana during the time of one's practice. Thus we neglect the work that we are supposed to be doing which is the setting up of one's Sati.

The Aaramana of the past has now taken it's place and therefore the results are not forthcoming. One must try to cut off this Aaramana of the past. One must take the present as one's foundation of practice. This is by taking care of one's Sati. What ever has happened in the past, however firm and stable the Citta was before, has already happened. There were the results of one's striving and exertion, the same kind of exertion that one is now putting forth and this exertion is being tended by Sati. These results cannot come fourth from any other cause. One must concentrate in the present. Don't rake up the past by trying to recall the results that happened before. However lofty they might have been one must now forget about them. Don't call them to mind and don't call them up as the Aaramana for they will just agitate and disturb the heart. One will then not be able to attain to calm. Then there will just be regret and frustration and grumbling and complaining that this is not like it was before.

This is one form of opposition. For this reason I am exhorting you not to become involved in this Aaramana of thinking about what happened in the past. One must just concentrate in the present. One must ask, what is it like now at this time? What is the reason that the Citta is not becoming calm? One must set one's understanding and awareness at this point. If one cannot take hold of the knowingness then one should not for get one's parikamma object. Wherever one goes one must stay close to the Citta. Let the Citta hang onto the Parikamma object constantly doing this parikamma bhaavanaa. What ever it is, be it Buddho or atthi or kesa, loma, nakha, danta or taco, the Citta must be concentrating and holding onto it.

Don't let the Citta go to do other kinds of work. Once one lets go of this work it will go into other kinds of work that are directed by the Kilesas. It is not the work directed by Dhamma. When we set the Citta to be concentrated on the parikamma object then this is the work of Dhamma. We are the one's that are supervising this work by depending on Dhamma so when we do this work it goes in the way of Dhamma. The heart will then be calm. This is the basis of practice. In the beginning stages when one tries to establish a basis it is quite difficult but no matter how hard it can be one must not take it as an obstacle, taking it as an aarammana. We must consider our exertion to be free from Dukkha as extremely vital and something that we have to be developing constantly. We have to develop Satti so that it can become firm, stable and continuous. One's mindfulness must be persistent. When the time is appropriate for pa~n~na to do the work of investigation and analysis one must then do it using both the internal and the external as the objects of investigation and comparison. Magga can be found in both the internal and the external. Pa~n~na can be found both internally and externally. If one develops it so that it actually becomes Pa~n~na which is called the Magga, what aspect are we going to investigate in the light of? Aniccam, for instance. We can take the external as the object of investigation and then compare it with the internal. This can be done.

Or one can compare the internal with the external, for in fact they are one and the same thing. There is no difference between them concerning aniccam, dukkham and anatta or asupa and paticula; filth and impurity is found both internally and externally. In all forms of men and women, of people and animals. One can investigate and analyse in any way that one devises up, at any time that it is appropriate for this work to be done.

But when one is doing the work of developing calm then one must solely concentrate on doing this work of calming the Citta by depending on the Parikamma object or on Anapanna Sati, whatever one finds suits one's temperament and character. The work must be flowing continuously, having Satti constantly supervising, then one's knowingness will be continuously flowing with the work. Once the knowingness is in a perpetual contact with the meditation subject and the Citta doesn't have any chance to go outward, here and there, the Citta will then steadily gather within. All the flow of the Citta will now converge within itself, thus turning into the focal point of calm. It now becomes the unique and distinctive feature of the heart. When this distinctive feature becomes more apparent it means that the Citta is now becoming steadily calmer. All the thinking and concocting will now steadily diminish. Even the concocting of the Parikamma object will now become less and less. What takes it's place is the very distinctive knowingness and whether one concocts up the Parikamma object or not this knowingness will still remain.

This is what is meant by the Citta converging into itself and becoming itself. We then remain at that point. This is the calm of the Citta. You have to really and earnestly concentrate in doing this work. Dhamma is the most supreme and wonderful thing, unsurpassed by any other thing. The Kilesas are low and mean. They are filthy and corrupt but we haven't yet come across and experienced the Dhamma. We haven't yet come to this experience of this marvellous nature so we have nothing to compare and compete with the Kilesas and so we always follow the Kilesas, always believing in them and letting them rock us to sleep. But when we have something to compete with the Kilesas then we can see that the Kilesas are fake. Dhamma will then become real and become the truth. It will become the competitor of the Kilesas. We will then be able to steadily let go of the Kilesas and be able to see the harm of every kind of Kilesa at every moment.

This is because we now have the Dhamma as a comparison and as a competitor. Whether this Dhamma is the calm of the heart or the discerning ability of the heart, whatever level of calm it is and however brilliant and subtle Pa~n~na may be, all of them are considered Dhamma. These are the Dhammas that are the competitors of the Kilesas. One will get to know immediately the difference between the Dhamma and the Kilesas. Concerning the benefits, ease, comfort and happiness that they can provide, this will be the way it is for all practitioners who do not relent in their exertion and who strive and become capable of fading all the Kilesas from his heart. They are capable of achieving this due to the Dhamma.

The taste of Dhamma excels all other tastes. All of these other tastes are nothing else but the taste of the Kilesas. What else can they be? What ever kind of flavour it may be it is usually the flavour of the Kilesas but the Dhamma always outstrips the Kilesas. The Kilesas only surrender to Dhamma. They are not afraid of anything else but Dhamma. They capitulate to Dhamma. How can we do it so that the Kilesas will give in and be apprehensive of Dhamma? We must take up the Dhamma that goes in the way of Dhamma and then we must develop and train ourselves. We must not relent or back down. We will see the realm of calm right within the heart. We will come across illumination and penetration right within the heart. We will also see the various kinds of means and techniques arising right within the heart. Once we have opened up the way then Dhamma will have the opportunity to arise steadily and this will not depend on time and place and the postures that we might be in.

Dhamma will steadily appear when the opportunity is there for it to come about, just like it is when the Kilesas come about. When the conditions are right for them to appear then they will steadily arise. The more the Kilesas appear then the more Dukkha there will be. The more the Dhamma emerges then the more happiness there will be. This is the basis of comparison and competition between the Dhamma and the Kilesas so that we can see them clearly within our hearts. The Kilesas have ruled over our hearts for a long time. Aren't we ever going to learn our lesson about their harm and their poison?

It is about time that we did so now that there is now the Dhamma that will serve as the competitor to them and the object of comparison and contrast. We will then begin to exert in our practice and keep on driving inward. At least we should try to make our heart calm so that we can have peace and happiness. For one who has gone forth, especially if he is a practitioner, if he doesn't have any claim within his heart he will never be able to have any happiness. Living amongst his peers he will see that every thing around him is antagonistic to him. Though he might not exhibit this externally it will still be building up within his heart. He will not be able to see how wonderful and noble all of his teachers are because his Citta is burning with fire. All of his thoughts are fiery. When the Citta doesn't have anything unusual or marvellous within itself and is fully possessed with the Kilesas then when he thinks about his peers, his fellows in Dhamma, and about all of his teachers, it will all go in the way of the Kilesas. He will not be able to see the marvel and wonder of them. He will become dull, weak, and discouraged and he will always be retreating.

This is just sliding back to let the Kilesas trample upon him, totally tearing him into pieces. Does this befit we who are the practitioners, the followers of the Tathagata, who take up the Dhamma of the Lord Buddha which is the foremost and supreme Dhamma? We just leave ourselves vulnerable to the Kilesas and let them trample all over us from the tops of our heads down to the soles of our feet for countless lives and we still have not learned our lesson yet. When are we ever going to come up with any wisdom? How can we ever believe in the Lord Buddha? It is correct to say that we take up the "Raga Tanha Sarana.m Gacchami" as our refuge. There is just the empty wind in the "Buddha.m Dhamma.m Sangha.m Sarana.m Gaccami" for truly it is all the time "Raga Dosa Moha Sarana.m Gacchami" and we are much closer to them than to the truth and Dhamma. We think about the truth and Dhamma occasionally but the Kilesas are in the heart. They are deeply buried there for they have now completely merged with the heart itself. And there is now nowhere that the Dhamma can infiltrate into the heart so there is nothing marvellous and wonderful within it. But when the Citta begins to attain to calm then one will begin to see the worth and value of oneself.

One begins to see the worth and value of the heart and of one's fellows in Dhamma and of one's teachers and the more subtle and lofty the Citta becomes the more one will come to see the wonder and unusualness of one's teachers. And why is this? Previously, when our teachers exhorted us in the instructions in their depth and profundity and subtlety we merely listened. It never got to our heart. But when we have the living testimony appearing right within our hearts like the state of calm that we can see clearly and that is in accordance with how our teacher expounded, these things are now living realities within our hearts and all the various levels of Satti and Pa~n~na expounded by our teacher have now also appeared within our hearts. This in addition to the results that arise from the work of Pa~n~na that overcomes, uproots and corrects the Kilesas so that the heart now becomes purified.

We can see this clearly within the heart. The degree of our conviction, belief and admiration for our fellows in Dhamma and our teachers will become heightened as the Citta now goes in the way of Dhamma. You have to put out your effort. I try my best to provide all of you with favourable times and opportunities to exert in your practice. I try to keep all extracurricular work to the minimum so that you can really strive in your practice. If you find that walking a lot is good for you then you should keep on walking. If you are not doing any other kind of work then you should do a lot of walking. The body can be adversely affected if it is not given the proper workout and exercise. You should therefore do a lot of walking, doing your walking practice as a way of working out.

Sitting for a long time or sitting a lot depends on your ability. This is not something that can be forced upon you. It depends on your own disposition and whatever is suitable for you. As far as I myself was concerned, in the beginning stages of practice I found it quite painful after sitting for about thirty minutes but then I was able to extend it to an hour, an hour and a half, two hours, three hours, and four hours. During each session of sitting I usually sat for about three or four hours but when the time came for putting in an all out effort then it really happened by itself.

There is a time when one comes to a critical situation in which one will have to contend until one comes up with the results and comes to true realisation and insight. This is when one goes into the ring and puts one's whole life at stake like sitting all night. I had never anticipated doing this before but as I began to sit, the Kilesas would begin to gather up their forces and really strike and swoop down on me. I began to wonder what was going on. It seemed like I was being obstinate though it was going in the way of Dhamma. I said, what is happening? This is the way of the Magga contending with one's own Kilesas. One isn't picking a fight with anyone. If one is contending with other people then this is the work of the Kilesas but when it is for the purpose of conquering oneself then this is the Magga. Magga is the instrument of contention with the Kilesas so one's Citta now begins to turn around incessantly and when it stops from revolving around then one says, okay, it's the truth or death. I immediately set up a resolve. Today I have to get to see the truth that is manifesting itself right at this time. What is the cause? If I don't die then I have to remain until morning before I will get up from this seat. From this moment until dawn I will not let anything come to side-track me from this work.

The Citta then begins to turn around incessantly and that is how it was when the time for it to become arose. When one is capable of establishing a basis from this way of practice from this way of practice then this becomes a very good instrument for one to tread in the future. One will have no qualms nor have any fear of the Dukkha Vedana that one has investigated before. One knows how to investigate Dukkha Vedana to the extent that Vedana is totally cut off from the heart. It can no longer protrude into the heart and affect it. One has clearly realised the truth of the body. Every part of the body is one form of truth as it is. The Vedana that appears doesn't know that it is Vedana. It is one form of process or condition and it is a form of truth. It exists as it is. It is the Citta that alleges that this thing and that thing is this and that, supposing that we are Dukkha or that we are experiencing or being afflicted with Dukkha, rounding it all in and calling it "I". So we end up rounding up these things which are the truth in themselves just to burn ourselves with because our Pa~n~na cannot catch up with them. But when Pa~n~na has analysed and differentiated every part and everything and has seen them according to the truth then every part of the body is just the body. They are all just as they are and as they have been since ancient times.

Vedana is a condition that arises, remains and disappears as is natural for it to do. It is the Citta that supposes and assumes and presumes. Sa~n~naa is really the chief culprit here. When one begins to understand this then the Citta will steadily begin to draw inwards. This is actually the Sa~n~naa that is steadily drawing inward. One then gets to see the truth within one's heart. The heart then becomes real. The body is real and so is Vedana. They each are real. And though Vedana might not disappear it will not affect the heart. One can remain quite at ease and comfortable. This is an extremely crucial technique for one is now able to establish a basis. One now becomes bold and courageous and the Citta becomes graceful and elegant. There is brilliance and luminosity right within the Citta. One begins to see the indescribable marvel within one's heart. It is something that one has never experienced before. With much success one is quite proud of oneself. One can now fearlessly face up to Vedana as well as coming face to face with death. One will just say, really, where will this death come from? What form of Dukkha Vedana can deceive me? At the time of death, what kind of Dukkha Vedana can appear if it is not this self same kind of Dukkha Vedana that is appearing at this time?

But I have already understood the truth of the Dukkha Vedana that is appearing at this time. Death really has no meaning or significance at all. All that is necessary is to get to know the truth. The four elements of earth, water, air and fire will just dissolve from this composition. They just return to their original true state. And how can the Citta die? While we claim that it passes away it instead becomes more distinct. The Citta also remains in it's true state. So what really dies? Do the four elements of earth, water, air and fire ever really die? Have they ever been destroyed? Of course not. It never happened. And how can the Citta die when one sees it becoming more distinct and obvious. Is this the one that is going to die? How can it die? One cannot even find a reason or the cause of it. It just manifests itself more distinctly and obviously. It will become very distinct and one becomes very brave and courageous. This is speaking about the time when it is suitable to put in an all out effort into the contention.

This will come by itself. May all of you put in your effort and strive in your practice. Don't relent or retreat. Be always and constantly endeavouring and striving. You have to take hold of this supreme treasure and make it the possession right within your heart. As far as the Kilesas that are ruling over our hearts are concerned, they have been here for calpas and calpas; for so long that we are not capable of tracing their origin right on down to the present. This is due to our blindness for we are entirely under the control of the Kilesas, allowing them to trample on and damage our heart. We let them push us around, to take birth in the various forms of existence. Whatever form of birth we take up it is all due to the influence of the Kilesas. It is the Kilesas that lead us to take birth and to die, to suffer Dukkha, and to go through a lot of trouble and hardship. If we cannot see the harm of the Kilesas then what can we see the harm of?

There is nothing else that is harmful to us. The external conditions such as the climate, the hot and the cold and the weather are all something quite ordinary, quite normal, quite usual. They are not as sever as the Kilesas that hurt and oppress us. This is how we have to see the harm and the bane of the Kilesas. Then there will be a way for us. The heart then will live in peace and tranquillity.

In the way of practice, there are two crucial tricks. The first one is when one comes to the conviction and true belief in the principle of Dhamma. This is one point. This is when one has established the crucial basis of the heart in which one can say to oneself that the Citta will definitely no longer deteriorate. One is very certain of it. It can be achieved by sitting all night. This accomplishment can be clearly and obviously perceived. One will then have learned the tricks of how to achieve this. One now knows definitely that the Citta will now not deteriorate. One is dead certain about it. One then moves on steadily forward until one becomes involved with Raga. One then turns incessantly around in one's investigation and here there is another trick to it and one gets to understand it afterwards. One then moves on further until one comes to the last stage of one's practice. This takes one to the ultimate of one's heart, of one's practice and of one's knowledge.

When one has got to that point there is still another trick to it. One who has not cracked this trick will not be able to explain it. This trick can be learned only from practical experience. This is similar to what the texts state when it says that an ordinary virtuous person is not capable of answering and solving the questions and problems of a Sottapana. A Sottapana is not capable of solving the problems of a Sakadagami. A Sakadagami is not capable of solving the problems of an Anagami and an Anagami is not capable of solving the problems of an Arahant and furthermore, an Arahant will not be able to solve the problems of the Lord Buddha. Also, no other Arahant will be capable of solving the problems of the Venerable Sariputta and the Venerable Moggalana. This is because there are tricks to solve these problems. Though these tricks might not be dealing with the correcting and overcoming of the Kilesas they are nevertheless beyond the ability of some of these people.

But when we were speaking about the tricks dealing with the Sottapana, the Sakadagami, the Anagami and the Arahant; these are the tricks in the overcoming and the correcting of the Kilesas. When we have learned these tricks from our practical experience be it any level and when it is something that we can perceive clearly within our hearts and we take these tricks and ask someone else who hasn't experienced them, he will not be able to answer us. He will be stuck with it even if he is a very learned scholar of the Tipitika. He will be stuck. Therefore, when we look in the light of truth, how can anyone be contemptuous of the Kammatana practitioner when he can ask you a question which you will not be able to answer?

Consider this example. At the time of the Lord Buddha there was a well learned scholar who had accomplished his study of the Tipitika. He was scornful of the Kammatana Bhikkhus and treated them with contempt and derision. The Lord Buddha heard of him. Now all of those Kammatana Bhikkhus were Arahants. The Lord Buddha came upon the scene. The Lord Buddha then himself set up the question. He asked the scholar, whose name was Bodhirakkha but Bodhirakkha was not able to give an answer. He then asked the Kammatana Bhikkhu, an Arahant, and he was able to give an answer immediately. The Lord then asked another question which was at another level of Dhamma and he asked Bodhirakkha, the scholar again. Again Bodhirakkha was not able to answer and when he turned around and asked the Kammatana Bhikkhu, he then answered immediately again. When the Lord Buddha asked the scholar he was not able to answer any questions but when he asked the Kammatana Bhikkhu, he was always able to give an answer right away.

The Lord Buddha then said to the scholar, you should not be contemptuous of the Kammatana because you are similar to a cowherd, a hired hand. You only get paid a salary to make a living from, but the sons of the Tathagata are similar to the owners of the cattle. They can make use of the cattle at any time they please for they are their possessions. They do not work for anybody. They are the boss.

That was how the Lord Buddha expounded this discourse as it was presented in the texts. There are tricks in the way of practice. When they discussed them those who have already experienced them will be able to understand what the other is talking about. They can understand what wrong view is. One has the wrong opinion or one thinks that one is correct. But one who has already passed beyond this will understand when it is being related to him. For instance, one may have the understanding that one has now gotten rid of Raga. One who has already passed beyond Raga can question the one who is professing and ask him to relate. Then he will be able to find out the fault. When one has truly got rid of Raga one will come to the understanding of the logical principle working behind it. The important thing is that one should practice and progress and come to experience these things. And then these things will not be able to keep themselves hidden from one.

End of Dessana.